Discussion:
Postdoc jobs from multiple companies can be found on indeed.com
(too old to reply)
Postdoc Recruiter
2007-06-04 02:02:58 UTC
Permalink
http://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=postdoc&l=&sort=date&rq=1
Aging_Recycled_Scientist
2007-06-04 11:04:59 UTC
Permalink
There is term for phrases that do not make sense ... like jumbo
shrimp... with conflicting meanings.
Putting post-doc and job together. I submit that the post doc
appointment should not be considered a job because most of the real
world ,especially HR types do not consider it a job for purposes of
counting it as experience and pay levels.
Pedal you exploitation elsewhere mac.
Straydog
2007-06-04 12:34:48 UTC
Permalink
I think the really sad thing about the last two decades is that employers
create these "temp" jobs to avoid paying full salary and providing more
secure employment. You no longer have a _career_ but a string of low
quality experiences that actually do nothing but dirty up one's CV. After
half a dozen, prospective employers don't even look at these guys any
more. Then they end up as taxi drivers, bus drivers, etc.
Post by Postdoc Recruiter
http://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=postdoc&l=&sort=date&rq=1
phil scott
2007-06-07 23:20:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Straydog
I think the really sad thing about the last two decades is that employers
create these "temp" jobs to avoid paying full salary and providing more
secure employment. You no longer have a _career_ but a string of low
quality experiences that actually do nothing but dirty up one's CV. After
half a dozen, prospective employers don't even look at these guys any
more. Then they end up as taxi drivers, bus drivers, etc.
That was very true 5 to 10 years ago... even the idiots bodyshops
hired to man the the agencies would ask sarcastically 'whats with ALL
those jobs'.... stunningly ignorant those folks.


I took many projects deliberatey to gain broad experience and learn
new ranges of technical applications etc. that has been quite
valuable, I can see solutions others cannot in many cases...
however as you folks have been pointing out, none of that is saleable
or valuable in the current 'job' market....


Fortune mag, May issue has a one page article on america's attitude
toward education..its being trashed, parents are increasingly calling
school administrators to complain about attempts to teach little
johnny algebra 'what does he need *that for'...and of course its that
parent who is old enough to work for a company and drive its hiring
policy.

the article points out how this will bankrupt the US in dire terms.
If it had gone on to explain how letting 20 million uneducated aliens
will affect the nation, as these are authorized to bring in their
families, for a total of 40 or 50 million, as more than that many
educated american middle class retires...the picture gets dim indeed.


thats a net 100 million or more change to the negative in the total US
work force. (168 million).... without the US middle class breeding
even to replacement levels, but with the uneducated folk, who today
statistics show drop out of school at the highest rates, breeding at 2
or 3x replaement rates.


graph that sometime


woiking for oneself however the experience is valuable.... a person
can get into the 50 to $150/hr range... more like 50 or 75/hr though
by those means... of course a self employed car mechanic rate is $85
to $100/hr...+profit on parts.. (lasting until we get 40 million new
folk witih no education in the US, car repairs will go for what it
takes to pay rent and buy food).

Apparently in the US as its currently set up, education is not
actually valuable (on the short term)... we can live off of
established technology until the chinese/ indians surpass us, then no
problem.... we can simply buy what we need from them.


we are a nation run by idiots.

in the final analysis its better to stay educated, you dont get a
blank look on your face that way, and as you age your brain stays
stable...with no education it turns to mush at warp speed.

Mother nature always has a perfect solution.




Phil Scott
Post by Straydog
http://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=postdoc&l=&sort=date&rq=1- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
BMJ
2007-06-08 00:00:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by phil scott
Post by Straydog
I think the really sad thing about the last two decades is that employers
create these "temp" jobs to avoid paying full salary and providing more
secure employment. You no longer have a _career_ but a string of low
quality experiences that actually do nothing but dirty up one's CV. After
half a dozen, prospective employers don't even look at these guys any
more. Then they end up as taxi drivers, bus drivers, etc.
That was very true 5 to 10 years ago... even the idiots bodyshops
hired to man the the agencies would ask sarcastically 'whats with ALL
those jobs'.... stunningly ignorant those folks.
I took many projects deliberatey to gain broad experience and learn
new ranges of technical applications etc. that has been quite
valuable, I can see solutions others cannot in many cases...
however as you folks have been pointing out, none of that is saleable
or valuable in the current 'job' market....
Fortune mag, May issue has a one page article on america's attitude
toward education..its being trashed, parents are increasingly calling
school administrators to complain about attempts to teach little
johnny algebra 'what does he need *that for'...and of course its that
parent who is old enough to work for a company and drive its hiring
policy.
I got a lot of that from my students. Some of them were going to work for
Daddy's company where many of the techniques and methods I taught weren't
used or were disregarded.

Inevitably, some administrators cave in. Some of those parents are quite
influential either by being donors, members of advisory committees, or
employers of the institution's grads.

So much for the schools and universities being the guardians of academic
standards.

<snip>
Straydog
2007-06-08 02:37:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by phil scott
Post by Straydog
I think the really sad thing about the last two decades is that employers
create these "temp" jobs to avoid paying full salary and providing more
secure employment. You no longer have a _career_ but a string of low
quality experiences that actually do nothing but dirty up one's CV. After
half a dozen, prospective employers don't even look at these guys any
more. Then they end up as taxi drivers, bus drivers, etc.
That was very true 5 to 10 years ago... even the idiots bodyshops
hired to man the the agencies would ask sarcastically 'whats with ALL
those jobs'.... stunningly ignorant those folks.
Better to paint your face a darker color, learn a fake Mexican accent (or
Indian accent), find some fake ID, pay a hacker to put INTO the
databases the evidence that you have the credentials you say you
have on your resume...and you'll do OK.
Post by phil scott
I took many projects deliberatey to gain broad experience and learn
new ranges of technical applications etc. that has been quite
valuable, I can see solutions others cannot in many cases...
however as you folks have been pointing out, none of that is saleable
or valuable in the current 'job' market....
What THEY want is CHEAP and YOUNG and EXPLOITABLE warm bodies. The rest of
us can eat crow.
Post by phil scott
Fortune mag, May issue has a one page article on america's attitude
toward education..its being trashed, parents are increasingly calling
school administrators to complain about attempts to teach little
johnny algebra 'what does he need *that for'...and of course its that
parent who is old enough to work for a company and drive its hiring
policy.
2 year school programs will be better for most.
Post by phil scott
the article points out how this will bankrupt the US in dire terms.
If it had gone on to explain how letting 20 million uneducated aliens
will affect the nation, as these are authorized to bring in their
families, for a total of 40 or 50 million, as more than that many
educated american middle class retires...the picture gets dim indeed.
There are studies to show they eat up more services than the money they
save their employers.
Post by phil scott
thats a net 100 million or more change to the negative in the total US
work force. (168 million).... without the US middle class breeding
even to replacement levels, but with the uneducated folk, who today
statistics show drop out of school at the highest rates, breeding at 2
or 3x replaement rates.
I want to know who is going to pay these ridiculous tuitions when kids
won't be able to get those $100K loans any more, and won't get good jobs
to pay off those loans.
Post by phil scott
graph that sometime
woiking for oneself however the experience is valuable.... a person
can get into the 50 to $150/hr range... more like 50 or 75/hr though
by those means... of course a self employed car mechanic rate is $85
to $100/hr...+profit on parts.. (lasting until we get 40 million new
folk witih no education in the US, car repairs will go for what it
takes to pay rent and buy food).
I've talked about this from about 2-3 years ago and on back to 5-7 years
ago.
Post by phil scott
Apparently in the US as its currently set up, education is not
actually valuable (on the short term)... we can live off of
established technology until the chinese/ indians surpass us, then no
problem.... we can simply buy what we need from them.
we are a nation run by idiots.
No kidding!
Post by phil scott
in the final analysis its better to stay educated,
Preferably, as Mark Twain said, without schooling.

you dont get a
Post by phil scott
blank look on your face that way, and as you age your brain stays
stable...with no education it turns to mush at warp speed.
Mother nature always has a perfect solution.
Darwinian survival....or not.
Post by phil scott
Phil Scott
Post by Straydog
http://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=postdoc&l=&sort=date&rq=1- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
BMJ
2007-06-08 03:05:25 UTC
Permalink
Straydog wrote:

<snip>
Post by Straydog
Post by phil scott
I took many projects deliberatey to gain broad experience and learn
new ranges of technical applications etc. that has been quite
valuable, I can see solutions others cannot in many cases...
however as you folks have been pointing out, none of that is saleable
or valuable in the current 'job' market....
What THEY want is CHEAP and YOUNG and EXPLOITABLE warm bodies. The rest
of us can eat crow.
Which begs the question: how do these outfits expect to stay in business
and provide high-quality goods or services when they don't want to hire
people with experience and/or education? I suspect that we are in, to
borrow a phrase that I first heard in the Ken Burns documentary series "The
Civil War", the Age of Shoddy. They simply don't care.
Post by Straydog
Post by phil scott
Fortune mag, May issue has a one page article on america's attitude
toward education..its being trashed, parents are increasingly calling
school administrators to complain about attempts to teach little
johnny algebra 'what does he need *that for'...and of course its that
parent who is old enough to work for a company and drive its hiring
policy.
2 year school programs will be better for most.
Having taught at a two-year institution, I've seen how that system can be
circumvented by certain parties. Not a pretty sight.
Post by Straydog
Post by phil scott
the article points out how this will bankrupt the US in dire terms.
If it had gone on to explain how letting 20 million uneducated aliens
will affect the nation, as these are authorized to bring in their
families, for a total of 40 or 50 million, as more than that many
educated american middle class retires...the picture gets dim indeed.
There are studies to show they eat up more services than the money they
save their employers.
A major computer retail chain here in Canada is closing a number of its
outlets. At its peak, it had four of them in my city and, when the
close-out sales end, there'll only be one left, as far as I know.

It used to be a great place to buy equipment and software and I left a lot
of $$$ there over the years. However, in the last five or so years, I
noticed that the quality of service declined. I'm not sure if it's
related, but the average age of the staff steadily went down during that
same time as well. It could well have been an act of desperation to remain
solvent.

How a large part of its organization's going belly up.

BTW, I bought a demonstrator computer and LCD monitor so I can tinker with
Linux at one of them. I saved over a third. I set up everything and the
machinery works. Now to set up for Linux.....
Post by Straydog
Post by phil scott
thats a net 100 million or more change to the negative in the total US
work force. (168 million).... without the US middle class breeding
even to replacement levels, but with the uneducated folk, who today
statistics show drop out of school at the highest rates, breeding at 2
or 3x replaement rates.
I want to know who is going to pay these ridiculous tuitions when kids
won't be able to get those $100K loans any more, and won't get good jobs
to pay off those loans.
One word: plastic.

<snip>
Straydog
2007-06-08 12:15:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by BMJ
<snip>
Post by Straydog
Post by phil scott
I took many projects deliberatey to gain broad experience and learn
new ranges of technical applications etc. that has been quite
valuable, I can see solutions others cannot in many cases...
however as you folks have been pointing out, none of that is saleable
or valuable in the current 'job' market....
What THEY want is CHEAP and YOUNG and EXPLOITABLE warm bodies. The rest of
us can eat crow.
Which begs the question: how do these outfits expect to stay in business and
provide high-quality goods or services when they don't want to hire people
with experience and/or education?
A lot of our economy is, today, composed of jobs that don't require
skilled workers any more. All of that function has been transfered to a
factory where unskilled warm bodies are good enough. With offshoring, they
can pay a warm body in India/China to provide the experience or education.
Thanks to globalization.

I suspect that we are in, to borrow a
Post by BMJ
phrase that I first heard in the Ken Burns documentary series "The Civil
War", the Age of Shoddy. They simply don't care.
Post by Straydog
Post by phil scott
Fortune mag, May issue has a one page article on america's attitude
toward education..its being trashed, parents are increasingly calling
school administrators to complain about attempts to teach little
johnny algebra 'what does he need *that for'...and of course its that
parent who is old enough to work for a company and drive its hiring
policy.
2 year school programs will be better for most.
Having taught at a two-year institution, I've seen how that system can be
circumvented by certain parties. Not a pretty sight.
Post by Straydog
Post by phil scott
the article points out how this will bankrupt the US in dire terms.
If it had gone on to explain how letting 20 million uneducated aliens
will affect the nation, as these are authorized to bring in their
families, for a total of 40 or 50 million, as more than that many
educated american middle class retires...the picture gets dim indeed.
There are studies to show they eat up more services than the money they
save their employers.
A major computer retail chain here in Canada is closing a number of its
outlets. At its peak, it had four of them in my city and, when the close-out
sales end, there'll only be one left, as far as I know.
Thanks to Michael Dell?
Post by BMJ
It used to be a great place to buy equipment and software and I left a lot of
$$$ there over the years. However, in the last five or so years, I noticed
that the quality of service declined. I'm not sure if it's related, but the
average age of the staff steadily went down during that same time as well.
All to cut costs.


===== no change to below, included for reference and context =====
Post by BMJ
It could well have been an act of desperation to remain solvent.
How a large part of its organization's going belly up.
BTW, I bought a demonstrator computer and LCD monitor so I can tinker with
Linux at one of them. I saved over a third. I set up everything and the
machinery works. Now to set up for Linux.....
Post by Straydog
Post by phil scott
thats a net 100 million or more change to the negative in the total US
work force. (168 million).... without the US middle class breeding
even to replacement levels, but with the uneducated folk, who today
statistics show drop out of school at the highest rates, breeding at 2
or 3x replaement rates.
I want to know who is going to pay these ridiculous tuitions when kids
won't be able to get those $100K loans any more, and won't get good jobs to
pay off those loans.
One word: plastic.
<snip>
BMJ
2007-06-08 12:51:31 UTC
Permalink
Straydog wrote:

<snip>
Post by Straydog
Post by BMJ
Which begs the question: how do these outfits expect to stay in
business and provide high-quality goods or services when they don't
want to hire people with experience and/or education?
A lot of our economy is, today, composed of jobs that don't require
skilled workers any more. All of that function has been transfered to a
factory where unskilled warm bodies are good enough. With offshoring,
they can pay a warm body in India/China to provide the experience or
education. Thanks to globalization.
Still, there are firms which can use older people with education and
experience and they simply don't get hired. How they expect to have the
younger employees produce work that's on par as someone who's been around
for a while and knows a few things still baffles me.

It has to be that those outfits really are stingy, despite the apparently
lavish benefits they pay.

<snip>
Post by Straydog
Post by BMJ
A major computer retail chain here in Canada is closing a number of
its outlets. At its peak, it had four of them in my city and, when
the close-out sales end, there'll only be one left, as far as I know.
Thanks to Michael Dell?
That was my thought as well, but Dell recently struck a deal with Wal-Mart
to sell some of its machines there.
Post by Straydog
Post by BMJ
It used to be a great place to buy equipment and software and I left a
lot of $$$ there over the years. However, in the last five or so
years, I noticed that the quality of service declined. I'm not sure
if it's related, but the average age of the staff steadily went down
during that same time as well.
All to cut costs.
Fat lot of good it did them.

<snip>
phil scott
2007-06-08 17:42:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Straydog
Post by BMJ
<snip>
Post by Straydog
Post by phil scott
I took many projects deliberatey to gain broad experience and learn
new ranges of technical applications etc. that has been quite
valuable, I can see solutions others cannot in many cases...
however as you folks have been pointing out, none of that is saleable
or valuable in the current 'job' market....
What THEY want is CHEAP and YOUNG and EXPLOITABLE warm bodies. The rest of
us can eat crow.
Which begs the question: how do these outfits expect to stay in business and
provide high-quality goods or services when they don't want to hire people
with experience and/or education?
A lot of our economy is, today, composed of jobs that don't require
skilled workers any more. All of that function has been transfered to a
factory where unskilled warm bodies are good enough. With offshoring, they
can pay a warm body in India/China to provide the experience or education.
Thanks to globalization.
correct and its getting worse fast...the unintended side effect is an
idiot culture that self destructs... co corporate profitablity can
prevent that. It seems many writers have been aware of this
potential for decades, films such as Blade runner of 30 years ago, and
more recently CRASH...adress the issues.
Post by Straydog
I suspect that we are in, to borrow a
Post by BMJ
phrase that I first heard in the Ken Burns documentary series "The Civil
War", the Age of Shoddy. They simply don't care.
thats natural in all end stages of life...with plants...flowers...a
rotting stew in the frig... people, cultures and nations. when you
see the cycles curve in any specific case, you can predict the ending
time frame.

sort of like a piece of fish in the fridge, a faint fishy smell
develops... you know its almost over at that point, you might get away
with frying it up cajun style.. in another day its more than dicy...a
day after that its over.

and not because I say so, or its an opinion...its over because of the
growth of bacteria... a lying cook wont help.
Post by Straydog
Post by BMJ
Post by Straydog
Post by phil scott
Fortune mag, May issue has a one page article on america's attitude
toward education..its being trashed, parents are increasingly calling
school administrators to complain about attempts to teach little
johnny algebra 'what does he need *that for'...and of course its that
parent who is old enough to work for a company and drive its hiring
policy.
2 year school programs will be better for most.
Having taught at a two-year institution, I've seen how that system can be
circumvented by certain parties. Not a pretty sight.
thats interesting,
Post by Straydog
Post by BMJ
Post by Straydog
Post by phil scott
the article points out how this will bankrupt the US in dire terms.
If it had gone on to explain how letting 20 million uneducated aliens
will affect the nation, as these are authorized to bring in their
families, for a total of 40 or 50 million, as more than that many
educated american middle class retires...the picture gets dim indeed.
There are studies to show they eat up more services than the money they
save their employers.
A major computer retail chain here in Canada is closing a number of its
outlets. At its peak, it had four of them in my city and, when the close-out
sales end, there'll only be one left, as far as I know.
Thanks to Michael Dell?
not so much Dell as the simplifiation of the systems, need less
diddling with...and the high cost of doing business in developed
cultures with bloated govts... lean and mean is all that works as govt
and the tax load increases.
Post by Straydog
Post by BMJ
It used to be a great place to buy equipment and software and I left a lot of
$$$ there over the years. However, in the last five or so years, I noticed
that the quality of service declined. I'm not sure if it's related, but the
average age of the staff steadily went down during that same time as well.
All to cut costs.
Comp USA in San Rafael calif has hired a few people over 30 thats
worked out well for them, as more of their stores close they are
grateful...I met the current manager though, a nasty bastard, with the
face of a loosing prize fighter... if he stays around business will
get worse.

Phil Scott
Post by Straydog
===== no change to below, included for reference and context =====
Post by BMJ
It could well have been an act of desperation to remain solvent.
How a large part of its organization's going belly up.
BTW, I bought a demonstrator computer and LCD monitor so I can tinker with
Linux at one of them. I saved over a third. I set up everything and the
machinery works. Now to set up for Linux.....
Post by Straydog
Post by phil scott
thats a net 100 million or more change to the negative in the total US
work force. (168 million).... without the US middle class breeding
even to replacement levels, but with the uneducated folk, who today
statistics show drop out of school at the highest rates, breeding at 2
or 3x replaement rates.
I want to know who is going to pay these ridiculous tuitions when kids
won't be able to get those $100K loans any more, and won't get good jobs to
pay off those loans.
One word: plastic.
<snip>- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
phil scott
2007-06-08 20:48:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by BMJ
<snip>
Post by Straydog
Post by phil scott
I took many projects deliberatey to gain broad experience and learn
new ranges of technical applications etc. that has been quite
valuable, I can see solutions others cannot in many cases...
however as you folks have been pointing out, none of that is saleable
or valuable in the current 'job' market....
What THEY want is CHEAP and YOUNG and EXPLOITABLE warm bodies. The rest
of us can eat crow.
Which begs the question: how do these outfits expect to stay in business
and provide high-quality goods or services when they don't want to hire
people with experience and/or education? I suspect that we are in, to
borrow a phrase that I first heard in the Ken Burns documentary series "The
Civil War", the Age of Shoddy. They simply don't care.
with tens of thousands of prime US companies SOLD to the chinese over
the last decade, I think a large part of why they dont care is that
the principles are selling and leaving with the cash... they have no
interest at all in the companies future.

the chinese buyers dont care because they have purchased the
technology and have a vast surplus of PhD level S and E's to fathom
what we did and how to clone or advance it.


that may in fact be the total answer to our questions along these
lines.... why do these companies still respond to our resume's and
call us in for interviews? they have to satisfy the HIB visa
requirements and probably for other govt purposes.


Phil Scott
Post by BMJ
Post by Straydog
Post by phil scott
Fortune mag, May issue has a one page article on america's attitude
toward education..its being trashed, parents are increasingly calling
school administrators to complain about attempts to teach little
johnny algebra 'what does he need *that for'...and of course its that
parent who is old enough to work for a company and drive its hiring
policy.
2 year school programs will be better for most.
Having taught at a two-year institution, I've seen how that system can be
circumvented by certain parties. Not a pretty sight.
Post by Straydog
Post by phil scott
the article points out how this will bankrupt the US in dire terms.
If it had gone on to explain how letting 20 million uneducated aliens
will affect the nation, as these are authorized to bring in their
families, for a total of 40 or 50 million, as more than that many
educated american middle class retires...the picture gets dim indeed.
There are studies to show they eat up more services than the money they
save their employers.
A major computer retail chain here in Canada is closing a number of its
outlets. At its peak, it had four of them in my city and, when the
close-out sales end, there'll only be one left, as far as I know.
It used to be a great place to buy equipment and software and I left a lot
of $$$ there over the years. However, in the last five or so years, I
noticed that the quality of service declined. I'm not sure if it's
related, but the average age of the staff steadily went down during that
same time as well. It could well have been an act of desperation to remain
solvent.
How a large part of its organization's going belly up.
BTW, I bought a demonstrator computer and LCD monitor so I can tinker with
Linux at one of them. I saved over a third. I set up everything and the
machinery works. Now to set up for Linux.....
Post by Straydog
Post by phil scott
thats a net 100 million or more change to the negative in the total US
work force. (168 million).... without the US middle class breeding
even to replacement levels, but with the uneducated folk, who today
statistics show drop out of school at the highest rates, breeding at 2
or 3x replaement rates.
I want to know who is going to pay these ridiculous tuitions when kids
won't be able to get those $100K loans any more, and won't get good jobs
to pay off those loans.
One word: plastic.
<snip>
BMJ
2007-06-08 21:27:35 UTC
Permalink
phil scott wrote:

<snip>
Post by phil scott
Post by BMJ
Which begs the question: how do these outfits expect to stay in business
and provide high-quality goods or services when they don't want to hire
people with experience and/or education? I suspect that we are in, to
borrow a phrase that I first heard in the Ken Burns documentary series "The
Civil War", the Age of Shoddy. They simply don't care.
with tens of thousands of prime US companies SOLD to the chinese over
the last decade, I think a large part of why they dont care is that
the principles are selling and leaving with the cash... they have no
interest at all in the companies future.
the chinese buyers dont care because they have purchased the
technology and have a vast surplus of PhD level S and E's to fathom
what we did and how to clone or advance it.
I was thinking in term of domestic employers. If I was running a business,
I'd be looking for the best people available. If there was someone who had
a lot of experience and other qualifications, I'd start negotiating. That
person's salary would likely pay off quite quickly.

I think back to when I was a young kid with a brand new engineering B. Sc.
It took me a few years before I felt I had enough experience and
confidence in my abilities to make my own decisions. Until then, I was
asking a lot of questions of my senior colleagues in order to learn how
things were done.

Of course, today's graduates are so much better prepared, aren't they?
Post by phil scott
that may in fact be the total answer to our questions along these
lines.... why do these companies still respond to our resume's and
call us in for interviews?
You got responses? ;-)

they have to satisfy the HIB visa
Post by phil scott
requirements and probably for other govt purposes.
I'm sure that most of the interviews I had in the last five years were
bogus and that the favoured candidate had been selected by the time I met
with the employer in question. I would have been brought in either as a
token gesture or to confirm the choice of that person.

<snip>
phil scott
2007-06-08 22:12:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by BMJ
<snip>
Post by phil scott
Post by BMJ
Which begs the question: how do these outfits expect to stay in business
and provide high-quality goods or services when they don't want to hire
people with experience and/or education? I suspect that we are in, to
borrow a phrase that I first heard in the Ken Burns documentary series "The
Civil War", the Age of Shoddy. They simply don't care.
with tens of thousands of prime US companies SOLD to the chinese over
the last decade, I think a large part of why they dont care is that
the principles are selling and leaving with the cash... they have no
interest at all in the companies future.
the chinese buyers dont care because they have purchased the
technology and have a vast surplus of PhD level S and E's to fathom
what we did and how to clone or advance it.
I was thinking in term of domestic employers. If I was running a business,
I'd be looking for the best people available. If there was someone who had
a lot of experience and other qualifications, I'd start negotiating. That
person's salary would likely pay off quite quickly.
I *was refering to domestic employers... those intending to sell down
the road maybe in a year or two... those dont care about the long
term.

You might want me to address those intending to stay in the USA?
and still not willing to hire talent. I would be somewhat at a
loss to answer that, but not totally.... many of course are just
idiots, inherited the business from its founder who had a clue...these
do not..they do not value high end skills. From my experience thats
almost wall to wall comon... very few exceptions.

Of the exceptions, those are hard pressed to compete with the
companies that moved offshore, they are hiring only to bare minimum
levels, trying to hang in until they can retire or sell out.


what of the few that are agressively seeking advance? Like Genentec
(sp)... they hire the best and pay well enough to get it, but with PhD
indians in the mix, and the ability off shore much of the research,
those salaries are still not very high, especially consiering that a
high school grad San Francisco or NYC cop can make 100k or more a year
with just a little overtime....twice what many PhD's earn... in fact a
good lawn care company, the owner working with two helpers can earn
that in a year easily, 6 hours a day,
Post by BMJ
I think back to when I was a young kid with a brand new engineering B. Sc.
It took me a few years before I felt I had enough experience and
confidence in my abilities to make my own decisions. Until then, I was
asking a lot of questions of my senior colleagues in order to learn how
things were done.
Of course, today's graduates are so much better prepared, aren't they?
about 5 years ago I was asked how in the hell I could ask for $35
dollars an hour when they could get 'a brand new graduate, with all
that stuff fresh in his mind for less than half that'.

idiots always predominate in the end phases of any culture.

It is learning to cope happily with that its possible to find an
answer to it.
as long as one is unhappy with that, the focus is on the
incomprehensibility of it all... solutions remain invisible...
and..because the new solutions are not at all like the old solutions,
a person tends to see only the previous range of solutions, which do
not exist anymore, nor does the context of that culture... it all
goes.

the new solutions will be in context with the new culture... thus you
find yers truly on any given day talking to a lady with a badly
functioning loo...to a man with a high rize construction management
problem..then back to a guy with a houseboat he wants a $50,000 dollar
remodel on because he liked my 3D CAD drawings of it... then back to a
weeks time off, figuring how to cut my fixed costs by another 100
bucks a month... done well, that ads up to a complete sea change in
life style, and working less than 10 hours a week to find freedom in
an unfree world.
Post by BMJ
Post by phil scott
that may in fact be the total answer to our questions along these
lines.... why do these companies still respond to our resume's and
call us in for interviews?
You got responses? ;-)
7 recently.. Two world class intelligent interviews, these are still
looking, the others a result of people who dont know how to read a
resume and determine skills required.

Several from people who think I just wanted a job, any job, and went
into shock when i agreed to a live interview but only after we did a
phone call first to see if would be a fit.

with a little lying i could have had one of the jobs probably,
stepping into a nasty meat grinder of a situation for a world class
firm with project manager burning out on one of the job sites, due to
harrassement from the owners rep etc. I passed...been there done
that. they would have wanted to pay me 75k or so, thats for a 7 am
to 6 pm gig.. half paid out in taxes, 20 in extra living expenses,
leaves 15k to save if I lived frugally.


I passed. they will endure limitless pain....the owner with ihs
killer babe wife will retire in 5 years and move to south america.

I will remain living on a houseboat and etc... sipping my starbucks
and beer... catching a fish now and then, chasing a few women, doing a
little engineering work and a mix of trades one day a week on average,
with an occasional project of a few months...then a years
vacation...healthy...unstressed.. dick going to full attention on
demand...waiting for the next medical advance that will insure more of
the same.

an army of others will follow, just as the boat people off of Hong
Kong and other parts of asia have. there are many ways to impliment
the approach. as a person ages with even very modest entitlements it
gets easier.... low overhead is the key.

In some parts of asia they only have one cooking pan, and one
knife...so that moving is easy. these dont have junk...and they dont
worry... these can spear one fish every day or two and live just fine
into very old age, and very little medical care needed, no stress you
see.


Our western standard its high stress and viciousness to the max... big
money..spend to maintain the high stress environment, then pay to
keep all the resulting diseases at bay for our short retired years.
that model sucks you see.
Post by BMJ
they have to satisfy the HIB visa
Post by phil scott
requirements and probably for other govt purposes.
I'm sure that most of the interviews I had in the last five years were
bogus and that the favoured candidate had been selected by the time I met
with the employer in question. I would have been brought in either as a
token gesture or to confirm the choice of that person.
I think thats about right...
In the end phases of anything, rot occurs, its not rational since it
is not driven by the life forces that created the thing, the rot is
driven by other forces... you dont fathom those of course.

studying the life cycle formats of any range of living things will
reveal those patterns to you, and what can and cannot be done to
change it or benefit from the cycle.



Phil Scott
Post by BMJ
<snip>
BMJ
2007-06-08 22:46:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by BMJ
<snip>
Post by phil scott
Post by BMJ
Which begs the question: how do these outfits expect to stay in business
and provide high-quality goods or services when they don't want to hire
people with experience and/or education? I suspect that we are in, to
borrow a phrase that I first heard in the Ken Burns documentary series "The
Civil War", the Age of Shoddy. They simply don't care.
with tens of thousands of prime US companies SOLD to the chinese over
the last decade, I think a large part of why they dont care is that
the principles are selling and leaving with the cash... they have no
interest at all in the companies future.
the chinese buyers dont care because they have purchased the
technology and have a vast surplus of PhD level S and E's to fathom
what we did and how to clone or advance it.
I was thinking in term of domestic employers. If I was running a business,
I'd be looking for the best people available. If there was someone who had
a lot of experience and other qualifications, I'd start negotiating. That
person's salary would likely pay off quite quickly.
I *was refering to domestic employers... those intending to sell down
the road maybe in a year or two... those dont care about the long
term.
OK.
You might want me to address those intending to stay in the USA?
and still not willing to hire talent. I would be somewhat at a
loss to answer that, but not totally.... many of course are just
idiots, inherited the business from its founder who had a clue...these
do not..they do not value high end skills. From my experience thats
almost wall to wall comon... very few exceptions.
Some of those same firms were started by the upper management. The
managers would be in my age group, but the majority of the staff are kids,
often not long out of school.

I have to wonder why those people, who should appreciate what an older
experienced worker could do, insist on hiring someone who's young and
hasn't done a lot. One reason I can think of is cost. I guess some
outfits are that cheap that they're willing to slit their own throats in
order to add to their bottom line.

<snip>
Post by BMJ
I think back to when I was a young kid with a brand new engineering B. Sc.
It took me a few years before I felt I had enough experience and
confidence in my abilities to make my own decisions. Until then, I was
asking a lot of questions of my senior colleagues in order to learn how
things were done.
Of course, today's graduates are so much better prepared, aren't they?
about 5 years ago I was asked how in the hell I could ask for $35
dollars an hour when they could get 'a brand new graduate, with all
that stuff fresh in his mind for less than half that'.
Fresh in their minds? Ha! I taught people like that. Many of them could
barely remember enough to pass the course and once they did, they deleted
all that information from their memories.

One advantage in hiring youngsters is that they're not yet old enough to
know that they're being suckered. Looking back over the past thirty years,
I put up with stuff when I was younger that I wouldn't tolerate now.
idiots always predominate in the end phases of any culture.
If that's the case, the end of the culture is taking its time. There were
lots of boneheads in charge during the mid-'70s.
It is learning to cope happily with that its possible to find an
answer to it.
as long as one is unhappy with that, the focus is on the
incomprehensibility of it all... solutions remain invisible...
and..because the new solutions are not at all like the old solutions,
a person tends to see only the previous range of solutions, which do
not exist anymore, nor does the context of that culture... it all
goes.
When news of my resigning from my teaching position slowly got out, a
number of my colleagues envied me. I told them that I tunneled my way out
but that they had to dig their own in order to escape.

<snip>
Post by BMJ
Post by phil scott
that may in fact be the total answer to our questions along these
lines.... why do these companies still respond to our resume's and
call us in for interviews?
You got responses? ;-)
7 recently.. Two world class intelligent interviews, these are still
looking, the others a result of people who dont know how to read a
resume and determine skills required.
When I had my first time of long-term unemployment nearly twenty-five years
ago, I was lucky if maybe 20% of my applications resulted in a response.
Nowadays, it's less than 5%.
Several from people who think I just wanted a job, any job, and went
into shock when i agreed to a live interview but only after we did a
phone call first to see if would be a fit.
Some employers I had interviews with didn't like the fact that I'm
semi-retired and can afford to be more selective about who I want to work
for. Rather than thinking that I don't have to take any job that comes my
way because I need a paycheque and can spend more time on the work, they
resent my independence.

Of course, I wasn't about to tell them that I'd spent too many years
without an income because I couldn't get a job and that, finally, I've
managed to scrape together some money.

<snip>
m***@gmail.com
2007-06-08 23:13:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by BMJ
Some of those same firms were started by the upper management. The
managers would be in my age group,
Maybe they drank the poison too?
Post by BMJ
Fresh in their minds? Ha! I taught people like that. Many of them could
barely remember enough to pass the course and once they did, they deleted
all that information from their memories.
How many were too drunk and/or stoned to remember anything at all?
BMJ
2007-06-08 23:32:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@gmail.com
Post by BMJ
Some of those same firms were started by the upper management. The
managers would be in my age group,
Maybe they drank the poison too?
Post by BMJ
Fresh in their minds? Ha! I taught people like that. Many of them could
barely remember enough to pass the course and once they did, they deleted
all that information from their memories.
How many were too drunk and/or stoned to remember anything at all?
I had a few who were plastered a lot of the time. Most just simply wanted
to be smart enough to pass the course.
phil scott
2007-06-08 23:52:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by BMJ
On Jun 8, 2:27 pm, BMJ <squeakwiz
I have to wonder why those people, who should appreciate what an older
experienced worker could do, insist on hiring someone who's young and
hasn't done a lot. One reason I can think of is cost. I guess some
outfits are that cheap that they're willing to slit their own throats in
order to add to their bottom line.
thats a big part of it... the other part as i learned the hard way, is
that not all of us old farts are very smart, some of us, a good
majority actually are dumber than boards, then past age 50 or 60,
alzheimers starts kicking in...we look ancient to even some in their
40's... i can recall when I was 35 calling 40+ to hire from their
organization and telling the guy, 'as close to 40 as possible, I dont
want the guy dying on me before the job is done, it was a 2 week job.


I thought age 45 was virtually dead...since I had led such a stressful
life to age 35, I couldnt imaging anyone hold out to 45... 65 forget
it entirely...just forget it... way way past totally senile in my
book... and thats not totally inaccurate.

many folk lead vegitative sorts of lives that produce that aging
pattern.
and I was headed solidly in that direction though not from ease, but
from way too much stress. I began my recovery at age 45 it took 20
years to recover fully.

I am not surprised therefor that those younger wont hire me... at age
51 it would much harder to fathom, but reading some on Monster.com on
the issue indicated that over age 40 it was very dicy, by 50 it was
largely over...and just pleeeeeze...forget it at age 65.

Of course Im still running dirt track races at age 66... the fat ass
little kiddies that interview me couldnt even dream of doing anything
like that.... oh well.

Its all part of natures solution and I had to spot that early and opt
into a more viable pattern as you have with the investments, I took
another route.
Post by BMJ
<snip>
Post by BMJ
I think back to when I was a young kid with a brand new engineering B. Sc.
It took me a few years before I felt I had enough experience and
confidence in my abilities to make my own decisions. Until then, I was
asking a lot of questions of my senior colleagues in order to learn how
things were done.
Of course, today's graduates are so much better prepared, aren't they?
about 5 years ago I was asked how in the hell I could ask for $35
dollars an hour when they could get 'a brand new graduate, with all
that stuff fresh in his mind for less than half that'.
Fresh in their minds? Ha! I taught people like that. Many of them could
barely remember enough to pass the course and once they did, they deleted
all that information from their memories.
One advantage in hiring youngsters is that they're not yet old enough to
know that they're being suckered. Looking back over the past thirty years,
I put up with stuff when I was younger that I wouldn't tolerate now.
I didnt know i was being suckered until well into my 50's... Im a slow
learner in those respects.

I met a hooker once in a bar when I was in LA on contract, she told me
more or less what you are, in very clear terms... she knew, I didnt...
20 years later it rang true for me.

she could tell by looking at me that I was the naive type in those
regards.
Post by BMJ
idiots always predominate in the end phases of any culture.
If that's the case, the end of the culture is taking its time. There were
lots of boneheads in charge during the mid-'70s.
its gotten a LOT worse since 1970... 500% worse at least. Id say
1985 more or ess marks the final turning point south.
Post by BMJ
It is learning to cope happily with that its possible to find an
answer to it.
as long as one is unhappy with that, the focus is on the
incomprehensibility of it all... solutions remain invisible...
and..because the new solutions are not at all like the old solutions,
a person tends to see only the previous range of solutions, which do
not exist anymore, nor does the context of that culture... it all
goes.
When news of my resigning from my teaching position slowly got out, a
number of my colleagues envied me. I told them that I tunneled my way out
but that they had to dig their own in order to escape.
<snip>
Post by BMJ
Post by phil scott
that may in fact be the total answer to our questions along these
lines.... why do these companies still respond to our resume's and
call us in for interviews?
You got responses? ;-)
7 recently.. Two world class intelligent interviews, these are still
looking, the others a result of people who dont know how to read a
resume and determine skills required.
When I had my first time of long-term unemployment nearly twenty-five years
ago, I was lucky if maybe 20% of my applications resulted in a response.
Nowadays, it's less than 5%.
I dealt with CEWeekly resume mailing service for 10 years, they mail
to 2500 job shops every week. From 1998 to 2006 I got maybe one
legitimate enquiry,,,the rest bogus in one aspect or the other.
prior to that I would get 20 to 50 phone interviews a year, and
several projects resulting.
Post by BMJ
Several from people who think I just wanted a job, any job, and went
into shock when i agreed to a live interview but only after we did a
phone call first to see if would be a fit.
Some employers I had interviews with didn't like the fact that I'm
semi-retired and can afford to be more selective about who I want to work
for. Rather than thinking that I don't have to take any job that comes my
way because I need a paycheque and can spend more time on the work, they
resent my independence.
sweet isnt it...
Post by BMJ
Of course, I wasn't about to tell them that I'd spent too many years
without an income because I couldn't get a job and that, finally, I've
managed to scrape together some money.
of course... but being totally on your own with investments is no
small feat... anything like that takes time and investment.

Im going to spend maybe a year getting good at the latest Acad...
mostly for my own use, but I will have the resume out for sport...
some will want to get me for the rates offered a high school kiddie...
I will tell them what you do more or less...and see if they
appreciate talent, maybe sign on to do a project flat rate, there is
money in that. I wont talk to many people these days about hourly
paid or salary jobs.... all that caters to the very mediocre in all
aspects, especially a mediocre management.

so ... these are used to spending 30k to have 4 idiots design a system
that one good man can do in a week... fine. I'll do it for a measly
15 to 20k and do the work off site, so I dont have to their resident
morons clip their nails, eat corn nuts, and blabber idiocy on the
telephone all day.


so far these just hate that... oh well :)


Phil Scott
Post by BMJ
<snip>- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
BMJ
2007-06-09 03:21:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by phil scott
Post by BMJ
On Jun 8, 2:27 pm, BMJ <squeakwiz
I have to wonder why those people, who should appreciate what an older
experienced worker could do, insist on hiring someone who's young and
hasn't done a lot. One reason I can think of is cost. I guess some
outfits are that cheap that they're willing to slit their own throats in
order to add to their bottom line.
thats a big part of it... the other part as i learned the hard way, is
that not all of us old farts are very smart, some of us, a good
majority actually are dumber than boards,
I figure we're in trouble if I can get into Mensa! :-)

then past age 50 or 60,
Post by phil scott
alzheimers starts kicking in...we look ancient to even some in their
40's... i can recall when I was 35 calling 40+ to hire from their
organization and telling the guy, 'as close to 40 as possible, I dont
want the guy dying on me before the job is done, it was a 2 week job.
I thought age 45 was virtually dead...since I had led such a stressful
life to age 35, I couldnt imaging anyone hold out to 45... 65 forget
it entirely...just forget it... way way past totally senile in my
book... and thats not totally inaccurate.
many folk lead vegitative sorts of lives that produce that aging
pattern.
and I was headed solidly in that direction though not from ease, but
from way too much stress. I began my recovery at age 45 it took 20
years to recover fully.
Then there are those who stop thinking once they finish school.
Post by phil scott
I am not surprised therefor that those younger wont hire me... at age
51 it would much harder to fathom, but reading some on Monster.com on
the issue indicated that over age 40 it was very dicy, by 50 it was
largely over...and just pleeeeeze...forget it at age 65.
Of course Im still running dirt track races at age 66... the fat ass
little kiddies that interview me couldnt even dream of doing anything
like that.... oh well.
I plan on remaining active as long as possible.
Post by phil scott
Its all part of natures solution and I had to spot that early and opt
into a more viable pattern as you have with the investments, I took
another route.
<snip>
Post by phil scott
Post by BMJ
One advantage in hiring youngsters is that they're not yet old enough to
know that they're being suckered. Looking back over the past thirty years,
I put up with stuff when I was younger that I wouldn't tolerate now.
I didnt know i was being suckered until well into my 50's... Im a slow
learner in those respects.
After quitting my teaching job, I had lots of time to think and I often
looked back at what I did over the years. I, too, came to the realization
that I was being suckered.

I don't think that people who see that later in life are necessarily slow
learners. It may be that it's only through the perspective of age and
experience that one can actually see past events for what they really were.
Up until then, I was busy with either looking for a job or holding on to
one as well as squeezing in university studies. I didn't have the time or
opportunity to think about what happened in the past.

<snip>
Post by phil scott
Post by BMJ
idiots always predominate in the end phases of any culture.
If that's the case, the end of the culture is taking its time. There were
lots of boneheads in charge during the mid-'70s.
its gotten a LOT worse since 1970... 500% worse at least. Id say
1985 more or ess marks the final turning point south.
You may be right about that. Maybe it started in the early '70s as a
result of a good deal of the silliness that went on in the 1960s. As for
1985 being the turning point, yeah, it's possible. There were a number of
events during that time that were rather disruptive to things. It was
about that time that I first heard references to globalization.

<snip>
Post by phil scott
Post by BMJ
When I had my first time of long-term unemployment nearly twenty-five years
ago, I was lucky if maybe 20% of my applications resulted in a response.
Nowadays, it's less than 5%.
I dealt with CEWeekly resume mailing service for 10 years, they mail
to 2500 job shops every week. From 1998 to 2006 I got maybe one
legitimate enquiry,,,the rest bogus in one aspect or the other.
prior to that I would get 20 to 50 phone interviews a year, and
several projects resulting.
I quickly gave up websites and services like that for much the same reason.
I was approached two or three times by fly-by-night outfits that got my
name from one such site.

<snip>
Post by phil scott
Post by BMJ
Some employers I had interviews with didn't like the fact that I'm
semi-retired and can afford to be more selective about who I want to work
for. Rather than thinking that I don't have to take any job that comes my
way because I need a paycheque and can spend more time on the work, they
resent my independence.
sweet isnt it...
It's more their loss than mine. The last outfit I was interviewed by
really shot themselves in the foot as I could have done the work of at
least two people there in more than one area. Had I been hired, the
company would have had a real bargain.
Post by phil scott
Post by BMJ
Of course, I wasn't about to tell them that I'd spent too many years
without an income because I couldn't get a job and that, finally, I've
managed to scrape together some money.
of course... but being totally on your own with investments is no
small feat... anything like that takes time and investment.
I spent too many years on the dole to want to make that my way of life again.

Last month, I attended the annual general meeting of a company I own stock
in. I had a chance to chat with someone in its communications department
and I described how I go about assessing a potential investment. She was
amazed that anyone can do something like that.

It's not all that hard, really. All I did was read some books on how to do
it, set up a database for it, complete the necessary calculations, and
examined a company's annual report for the required numbers. It's no
guarantee that I'd make money by investing in it, but I can certainly avoid
the obvious sinkholes.
Post by phil scott
Im going to spend maybe a year getting good at the latest Acad...
mostly for my own use, but I will have the resume out for sport...
I still do that from time to time, doing it just to see if anybody's
interested.
Post by phil scott
some will want to get me for the rates offered a high school kiddie...
I once offered to work at quite a low rate in order to get myself into the
company. The response of the person I met with was bewilderment. (Hello?
Does the word "opportunity" ring a bell?)
Post by phil scott
I will tell them what you do more or less...and see if they
appreciate talent, maybe sign on to do a project flat rate, there is
money in that. I wont talk to many people these days about hourly
paid or salary jobs.... all that caters to the very mediocre in all
aspects, especially a mediocre management.
so ... these are used to spending 30k to have 4 idiots design a system
that one good man can do in a week... fine. I'll do it for a measly
15 to 20k and do the work off site, so I dont have to their resident
morons clip their nails, eat corn nuts, and blabber idiocy on the
telephone all day.
I get the impression that's what a lot of the younger workers do all day.
Work? Waddat?

<snip>
m***@gmail.com
2007-06-09 03:40:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by BMJ
Then there are those who stop thinking once they finish school.
For some folks, all their "thinking" is done by television and/or talk
radio.
Post by BMJ
I don't think that people who see that later in life are necessarily slow
learners. It may be that it's only through the perspective of age and
experience that one can actually see past events for what they really were.
Up until then, I was busy with either looking for a job or holding on to
one as well as squeezing in university studies. I didn't have the time or
opportunity to think about what happened in the past.
The same can be said about folks who end up in the prison system.
Though for some inmates, their "introspection" isn't for the better.
Post by BMJ
You may be right about that. Maybe it started in the early '70s as a
result of a good deal of the silliness that went on in the 1960s. As for
1985 being the turning point, yeah, it's possible. There were a number of
events during that time that were rather disruptive to things. It was
about that time that I first heard references to globalization.
Globalization seemed to have accelerated significantly since the Iron
Curtain fell.
BMJ
2007-06-09 03:53:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@gmail.com
Post by BMJ
Then there are those who stop thinking once they finish school.
For some folks, all their "thinking" is done by television and/or talk
radio.
Yup.
Post by m***@gmail.com
Post by BMJ
I don't think that people who see that later in life are necessarily slow
learners. It may be that it's only through the perspective of age and
experience that one can actually see past events for what they really were.
Up until then, I was busy with either looking for a job or holding on to
one as well as squeezing in university studies. I didn't have the time or
opportunity to think about what happened in the past.
The same can be said about folks who end up in the prison system.
Though for some inmates, their "introspection" isn't for the better.
In some cases, it's just what they needed to smarten up.
Post by m***@gmail.com
Post by BMJ
You may be right about that. Maybe it started in the early '70s as a
result of a good deal of the silliness that went on in the 1960s. As for
1985 being the turning point, yeah, it's possible. There were a number of
events during that time that were rather disruptive to things. It was
about that time that I first heard references to globalization.
Globalization seemed to have accelerated significantly since the Iron
Curtain fell.
phil scott
2007-06-08 03:15:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Straydog
Post by phil scott
Post by Straydog
I think the really sad thing about the last two decades is that employers
create these "temp" jobs to avoid paying full salary and providing more
secure employment. You no longer have a _career_ but a string of low
quality experiences that actually do nothing but dirty up one's CV. After
half a dozen, prospective employers don't even look at these guys any
more. Then they end up as taxi drivers, bus drivers, etc.
That was very true 5 to 10 years ago... even the idiots bodyshops
hired to man the the agencies would ask sarcastically 'whats with ALL
those jobs'.... stunningly ignorant those folks.
Better to paint your face a darker color, learn a fake Mexican accent (or
Indian accent), find some fake ID, pay a hacker to put INTO the
databases the evidence that you have the credentials you say you
have on your resume...and you'll do OK.
Post by phil scott
I took many projects deliberatey to gain broad experience and learn
new ranges of technical applications etc. that has been quite
valuable, I can see solutions others cannot in many cases...
however as you folks have been pointing out, none of that is saleable
or valuable in the current 'job' market....
What THEY want is CHEAP and YOUNG and EXPLOITABLE warm bodies. The rest of
us can eat crow.
Post by phil scott
Fortune mag, May issue has a one page article on america's attitude
toward education..its being trashed, parents are increasingly calling
school administrators to complain about attempts to teach little
johnny algebra 'what does he need *that for'...and of course its that
parent who is old enough to work for a company and drive its hiring
policy.
2 year school programs will be better for most.
Post by phil scott
the article points out how this will bankrupt the US in dire terms.
If it had gone on to explain how letting 20 million uneducated aliens
will affect the nation, as these are authorized to bring in their
families, for a total of 40 or 50 million, as more than that many
educated american middle class retires...the picture gets dim indeed.
There are studies to show they eat up more services than the money they
save their employers.
Post by phil scott
thats a net 100 million or more change to the negative in the total US
work force. (168 million).... without the US middle class breeding
even to replacement levels, but with the uneducated folk, who today
statistics show drop out of school at the highest rates, breeding at 2
or 3x replaement rates.
I want to know who is going to pay these ridiculous tuitions when kids
won't be able to get those $100K loans any more, and won't get good jobs
to pay off those loans.
Post by phil scott
graph that sometime
woiking for oneself however the experience is valuable.... a person
can get into the 50 to $150/hr range... more like 50 or 75/hr though
by those means... of course a self employed car mechanic rate is $85
to $100/hr...+profit on parts.. (lasting until we get 40 million new
folk witih no education in the US, car repairs will go for what it
takes to pay rent and buy food).
I've talked about this from about 2-3 years ago and on back to 5-7 years
ago.
Post by phil scott
Apparently in the US as its currently set up, education is not
actually valuable (on the short term)... we can live off of
established technology until the chinese/ indians surpass us, then no
problem.... we can simply buy what we need from them.
we are a nation run by idiots.
No kidding!
Post by phil scott
in the final analysis its better to stay educated,
Preferably, as Mark Twain said, without schooling.
you dont get a
Post by phil scott
blank look on your face that way, and as you age your brain stays
stable...with no education it turns to mush at warp speed.
Mother nature always has a perfect solution.
Darwinian survival....or not.
Post by phil scott
Phil Scott
Post by Straydog
http://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=postdoc&l=&sort=date&rq=1-Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
I might post a separate thread on how my 3D cad lessons are going, 8
total approx..depends on how you look at it, Home study, using a CD
rom, very high quality instruction.

so far it looks like about a month of 6 hour days per lesson (if one
can stand the stress). to get really good even at doing a limited
range of chores it will take 100 hours to make one pass through one
lesson, and 1,000 hours if a person wanted to go onto the market and
advertise those skills... if that person is already a skilled
engineer, then he has something... a kiddie in school, with no such
skills, would not be nearly as valuable.


How a school can teach this sort of thing in 3 hours a week eludes me
entirely... and that would require a lot of homework also... only the
brightest could do well imho. and even so, it would take several years
of courses to gain the skills...and they would still need a good math
science background to produce decent work.


I think in the US there will be a big shortage of that talent....
however not abroad, a half starved chinese PhD in engineering can
spend all the time he needs to come to world class levels on that
software, and the work can be sent back and forth in PDF files etc.


The viable niche for americans will be on smaller projects, retrofits
and product development where the work has to be done more or less on
site in order to accomodate the interfaces required.


that will keep about 5% of us busy.

a mix of that sort of thing and trades skills at least works...but not
well enough to fund govt as I had been doing with 40k a year in
donations to the revenue folk prior to influx of H1B folk.... oh no...
that money has to come from thin air now...as govt continues to grow
by 10% a year in most areas..


I was also spending my money in the US, furthering the broader
economy. much of the HIB and illegals money is going
offshore.....accompanied by a huge sucking sound.


Maybe our glorious govt can fund its civil service retirements ( up to
10x or 15x !!the average in the private economy, police and fire at
10x) by going after the half starved engineers turned handymen, in
competition with illegals with contractors licenses no less.


Its like this..... if you are an 800 lb fat lady, and these folk came
after you, all you'd have to do is sit there sipping yer mint julip.
(dont make any sudden moves though)

The glorious civil servants could talk among themselves to scare you
and say 'OK, call in the crane company'... etc... all a total waste
of time, they cant even fit your ass into their van, much less a jail
cell...and then they have to feed you.


its over.


The last man standing will be a beer drinker, with very low overhead,
and few if any taxable assets. Govt knows this. that is why so
many are encouraged to 'own homes'...even negative interest loans to
the totally uncredit worthy are being funded by Fed Bank loans.... a
person with a family in a house to feed, can be driven to work two
jobs, 20 hours a day if necessary...

Leverage.

without that, one is free you see.



Phil Scott
m***@gmail.com
2007-06-08 05:13:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by phil scott
I think in the US there will be a big shortage of that talent....
however not abroad, a half starved chinese PhD in engineering can
spend all the time he needs to come to world class levels on that
software, and the work can be sent back and forth in PDF files etc.
Eventually India and China's labor may end up becoming "expensive"
too, such as what happened in Japan and Germany over the last 60+
years. Though how long this will take to happen is unknown,
considering the population of these two countries is in the billions.
One day the birth rate and population growth may very well start to
become negative in India and China too. When this day will come, we
may already be deceased. Maybe generation-Y and successive
generations will live to see it.
Post by phil scott
I was also spending my money in the US, furthering the broader
economy. much of the HIB and illegals money is going
offshore.....accompanied by a huge sucking sound.
Maybe our glorious govt can fund its civil service retirements ( up to
10x or 15x !!the average in the private economy, police and fire at
10x) by going after the half starved engineers turned handymen, in
competition with illegals with contractors licenses no less.
The government will most likely solve this problem by the path of
least resistance: printing up money over a long period of time.
Straydog
2007-06-08 12:38:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@gmail.com
Post by phil scott
I think in the US there will be a big shortage of that talent....
however not abroad, a half starved chinese PhD in engineering can
spend all the time he needs to come to world class levels on that
software, and the work can be sent back and forth in PDF files etc.
Eventually India and China's labor may end up becoming "expensive"
too,
If the US wanted to slap tariffs on imported good and (somehow) imported
labor, the trade deficit would be gone overnight.

Why this does NOT happen is "the noise" from economists, and the fact that
big business in the US has the govt in their pockets (our plutocracy, not
democracy) and our govt tells us the story that "all this is good for
keeping prices low for all you 'underlings'" but the real story is "hey,
all you CEOs, anything for your profits as long as we keep getting
campaign money donations."
Post by m***@gmail.com
such as what happened in Japan and Germany over the last 60+
years. Though how long this will take to happen is unknown,
considering the population of these two countries is in the billions.
One day the birth rate and population growth may very well start to
become negative in India and China too. When this day will come, we
may already be deceased. Maybe generation-Y and successive
generations will live to see it.
The reason you are not seeing "made in Japan" stamped on imports any more
is that the factories owned/operated by Japan are not in Japan any more,
but China. Japan loves to make high net profits, China loves to get its
economy up to speed, and most people in the US (except those whose job got
offshored and now can't find work except Walmart, etc., if they can find
anything) love cheap products. Where will we be in decades?
Post by m***@gmail.com
Post by phil scott
I was also spending my money in the US, furthering the broader
economy. much of the HIB and illegals money is going
offshore.....accompanied by a huge sucking sound.
Maybe our glorious govt can fund its civil service retirements ( up to
10x or 15x !!the average in the private economy, police and fire at
10x) by going after the half starved engineers turned handymen, in
competition with illegals with contractors licenses no less.
The government will most likely solve this problem by the path of
least resistance: printing up money over a long period of time.
Nah, even better. Not enough people know that banks actually create more
money than printing ever will. The only thing you have to do is keep the
economy going. For every dollar you deposit at the bank, the bank loans
out 95 cents of it the next day, which gets deposited into another bank,
and then 90 cents gets loaned out the day after, and the cycle goes on.
This is in all of the books on banking that I've seen. All you have to do
is read it and scratch your head. As long as the economy keeps going, we
don't have to worry. You need to read Edward Griffin's book "The Creature
from Jekyll Island" to learn what may be the biggest dirty secret of life:
how money works. Much better than Galbreath's book on Money.
phil scott
2007-06-08 17:48:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Straydog
Post by m***@gmail.com
Post by phil scott
I think in the US there will be a big shortage of that talent....
however not abroad, a half starved chinese PhD in engineering can
spend all the time he needs to come to world class levels on that
software, and the work can be sent back and forth in PDF files etc.
Eventually India and China's labor may end up becoming "expensive"
too,
If the US wanted to slap tariffs on imported good and (somehow) imported
labor, the trade deficit would be gone overnight.
correct, however, our trading partners would slap tarriffs on our
goods, especially since we have trained and equipped them to make
their own world class items... in that case the US export economy
would collapse.

would the net effect be worse than the current path of leveling with
the third world...thats debatable.

Personally I think we will see tarriffs and control of alien labor to
a serious extent before its over...probably within the next 5 years.
Post by Straydog
Why this does NOT happen is "the noise" from economists, and the fact that
big business in the US has the govt in their pockets (our plutocracy, not
democracy) and our govt tells us the story that "all this is good for
keeping prices low for all you 'underlings'" but the real story is "hey,
all you CEOs, anything for your profits as long as we keep getting
campaign money donations."
corp profits are up 400% in direct correlation to the decline in real
US wages.
Post by Straydog
Post by m***@gmail.com
such as what happened in Japan and Germany over the last 60+
years. Though how long this will take to happen is unknown,
considering the population of these two countries is in the billions.
One day the birth rate and population growth may very well start to
become negative in India and China too. When this day will come, we
may already be deceased. Maybe generation-Y and successive
generations will live to see it.
The reason you are not seeing "made in Japan" stamped on imports any more
is that the factories owned/operated by Japan are not in Japan any more,
but China. Japan loves to make high net profits, China loves to get its
economy up to speed, and most people in the US (except those whose job got
offshored and now can't find work except Walmart, etc., if they can find
anything) love cheap products. Where will we be in decades?
its already here but disguised, we are living on debt, home loans and
govt debt.
its not sustainable.

phil scott
Post by Straydog
Post by m***@gmail.com
Post by phil scott
I was also spending my money in the US, furthering the broader
economy. much of the HIB and illegals money is going
offshore.....accompanied by a huge sucking sound.
Maybe our glorious govt can fund its civil service retirements ( up to
10x or 15x !!the average in the private economy, police and fire at
10x) by going after the half starved engineers turned handymen, in
competition with illegals with contractors licenses no less.
The government will most likely solve this problem by the path of
least resistance: printing up money over a long period of time.
Nah, even better. Not enough people know that banks actually create more
money than printing ever will. The only thing you have to do is keep the
economy going. For every dollar you deposit at the bank, the bank loans
out 95 cents of it the next day, which gets deposited into another bank,
and then 90 cents gets loaned out the day after, and the cycle goes on.
This is in all of the books on banking that I've seen. All you have to do
is read it and scratch your head. As long as the economy keeps going, we
don't have to worry. You need to read Edward Griffin's book "The Creature
how money works. Much better than Galbreath's book on Money.
Straydog
2007-06-08 20:40:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by phil scott
Post by Straydog
Post by m***@gmail.com
Post by phil scott
I think in the US there will be a big shortage of that talent....
however not abroad, a half starved chinese PhD in engineering can
spend all the time he needs to come to world class levels on that
software, and the work can be sent back and forth in PDF files etc.
Eventually India and China's labor may end up becoming "expensive"
too,
If the US wanted to slap tariffs on imported good and (somehow) imported
labor, the trade deficit would be gone overnight.
correct, however, our trading partners would slap tarriffs on our
goods, especially since we have trained and equipped them to make
their own world class items... in that case the US export economy
would collapse.
It already has. The pegged Renminbi basically caused another--what--30-50%
of our factories to be shut down in the last handfull of years.
Post by phil scott
would the net effect be worse than the current path of leveling with
the third world...thats debatable.
Personally I think we will see tarriffs and control of alien labor to
a serious extent before its over...probably within the next 5 years.
I'm not sure how its going to work out, but I'll make my bet that
(US) trade deficits, in specific, and (US) debt, in general, can't keep
going up.
Post by phil scott
Post by Straydog
Why this does NOT happen is "the noise" from economists, and the fact that
big business in the US has the govt in their pockets (our plutocracy, not
democracy) and our govt tells us the story that "all this is good for
keeping prices low for all you 'underlings'" but the real story is "hey,
all you CEOs, anything for your profits as long as we keep getting
campaign money donations."
corp profits are up 400% in direct correlation to the decline in real
US wages.
Robber-barrons in chushy chairs, remember?
Post by phil scott
Post by Straydog
Post by m***@gmail.com
such as what happened in Japan and Germany over the last 60+
years. Though how long this will take to happen is unknown,
considering the population of these two countries is in the billions.
One day the birth rate and population growth may very well start to
become negative in India and China too. When this day will come, we
may already be deceased. Maybe generation-Y and successive
generations will live to see it.
The reason you are not seeing "made in Japan" stamped on imports any more
is that the factories owned/operated by Japan are not in Japan any more,
but China. Japan loves to make high net profits, China loves to get its
economy up to speed, and most people in the US (except those whose job got
offshored and now can't find work except Walmart, etc., if they can find
anything) love cheap products. Where will we be in decades?
its already here but disguised, we are living on debt, home loans and
govt debt.
its not sustainable.
Agreed.
Post by phil scott
phil scott
Post by Straydog
Post by m***@gmail.com
Post by phil scott
I was also spending my money in the US, furthering the broader
economy. much of the HIB and illegals money is going
offshore.....accompanied by a huge sucking sound.
Maybe our glorious govt can fund its civil service retirements ( up to
10x or 15x !!the average in the private economy, police and fire at
10x) by going after the half starved engineers turned handymen, in
competition with illegals with contractors licenses no less.
The government will most likely solve this problem by the path of
least resistance: printing up money over a long period of time.
Nah, even better. Not enough people know that banks actually create more
money than printing ever will. The only thing you have to do is keep the
economy going. For every dollar you deposit at the bank, the bank loans
out 95 cents of it the next day, which gets deposited into another bank,
and then 90 cents gets loaned out the day after, and the cycle goes on.
This is in all of the books on banking that I've seen. All you have to do
is read it and scratch your head. As long as the economy keeps going, we
don't have to worry. You need to read Edward Griffin's book "The Creature
how money works. Much better than Galbreath's book on Money.
phil scott
2007-06-08 21:00:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Straydog
Post by m***@gmail.com
Post by phil scott
I think in the US there will be a big shortage of that talent....
however not abroad, a half starved chinese PhD in engineering can
spend all the time he needs to come to world class levels on that
software, and the work can be sent back and forth in PDF files etc.
Eventually India and China's labor may end up becoming "expensive"
too,
If the US wanted to slap tariffs on imported good and (somehow) imported
labor, the trade deficit would be gone overnight.
Why this does NOT happen is "the noise" from economists, and the fact that
big business in the US has the govt in their pockets (our plutocracy, not
democracy) and our govt tells us the story that "all this is good for
keeping prices low for all you 'underlings'" but the real story is "hey,
all you CEOs, anything for your profits as long as we keep getting
campaign money donations."
Post by m***@gmail.com
such as what happened in Japan and Germany over the last 60+
years. Though how long this will take to happen is unknown,
considering the population of these two countries is in the billions.
One day the birth rate and population growth may very well start to
become negative in India and China too. When this day will come, we
may already be deceased. Maybe generation-Y and successive
generations will live to see it.
The reason you are not seeing "made in Japan" stamped on imports any more
is that the factories owned/operated by Japan are not in Japan any more,
but China. Japan loves to make high net profits, China loves to get its
economy up to speed, and most people in the US (except those whose job got
offshored and now can't find work except Walmart, etc., if they can find
anything) love cheap products. Where will we be in decades?
Post by m***@gmail.com
Post by phil scott
I was also spending my money in the US, furthering the broader
economy. much of the HIB and illegals money is going
offshore.....accompanied by a huge sucking sound.
Maybe our glorious govt can fund its civil service retirements ( up to
10x or 15x !!the average in the private economy, police and fire at
10x) by going after the half starved engineers turned handymen, in
competition with illegals with contractors licenses no less.
The government will most likely solve this problem by the path of
least resistance: printing up money over a long period of time.
Nah, even better. Not enough people know that banks actually create more
money than printing ever will. The only thing you have to do is keep the
economy going. For every dollar you deposit at the bank, the bank loans
out 95 cents of it the next day, which gets deposited into another bank,
and then 90 cents gets loaned out the day after, and the cycle goes on.
This is in all of the books on banking that I've seen. All you have to do
is read it and scratch your head. As long as the economy keeps going, we
don't have to worry. You need to read Edward Griffin's book "The Creature
how money works. Much better than Galbreath's book on Money.
indeed I should read it... in the meantime do you have a short
review.

my guess, is that money is only a medium of exchange after all, not
the good itself, so that as long as the people can be coaxed into
producing goods and others lent enough money to buy them, all is well
in river city.

not such a bad premise either.

My life has been in trouble shooting various types of systems though,
so when I see a pig flying though the air, wonderful at it is, I start
looking for lipstick on it...once with the lipstick and you know
someone has put it on...its bogus.

accordingly I look for an underlying basis... vastly skinnier pigs
with wings? that would work... or maybe the pig is still fat as hell,
no wings..and is flying... was it shot out of a cannon? something is
behind the flying pig thing you see.


underlying any nations economy are both interim economic cycles, and
the life cycle of the host nation and peoples... at the end of the
latter cycle there are indicators.... skyrocketing exponential bloat
in the size of govt, production declines because of a lazy and/or
insufficient work force (due to over taxation by govt of the working
class, to fund the govt bloat). criminality ensues, wars are begun
to get the natural resources of other nations (vital at that point to
survival as production has gone to hell),,, the cost of the wars
bankrupt the nation.. with no strength in its people to fall back on,
govt collapses..... the nation reboots on the remnant....100 years
later it is viable again.

we in the US regardless of how we do our medium of exchange are fast
becoming non competitive in the world market, that translates to no
income besides loans...the current condition to a large extent.


When current actual income is less than the loan payments the nation
defaults,, loans cease, and collapse ensues.... even if they print or
the banks spin into being a billion dollars a second... its all
bogus. the world knows it.... there is insufficient production to
dig out of the mess.




Phil Scott
Straydog
2007-06-08 21:51:04 UTC
Permalink
See below...
Post by phil scott
Post by Straydog
Post by m***@gmail.com
Post by phil scott
I think in the US there will be a big shortage of that talent....
however not abroad, a half starved chinese PhD in engineering can
spend all the time he needs to come to world class levels on that
software, and the work can be sent back and forth in PDF files etc.
Eventually India and China's labor may end up becoming "expensive"
too,
If the US wanted to slap tariffs on imported good and (somehow) imported
labor, the trade deficit would be gone overnight.
Why this does NOT happen is "the noise" from economists, and the fact that
big business in the US has the govt in their pockets (our plutocracy, not
democracy) and our govt tells us the story that "all this is good for
keeping prices low for all you 'underlings'" but the real story is "hey,
all you CEOs, anything for your profits as long as we keep getting
campaign money donations."
Post by m***@gmail.com
such as what happened in Japan and Germany over the last 60+
years. Though how long this will take to happen is unknown,
considering the population of these two countries is in the billions.
One day the birth rate and population growth may very well start to
become negative in India and China too. When this day will come, we
may already be deceased. Maybe generation-Y and successive
generations will live to see it.
The reason you are not seeing "made in Japan" stamped on imports any more
is that the factories owned/operated by Japan are not in Japan any more,
but China. Japan loves to make high net profits, China loves to get its
economy up to speed, and most people in the US (except those whose job got
offshored and now can't find work except Walmart, etc., if they can find
anything) love cheap products. Where will we be in decades?
Post by m***@gmail.com
Post by phil scott
I was also spending my money in the US, furthering the broader
economy. much of the HIB and illegals money is going
offshore.....accompanied by a huge sucking sound.
Maybe our glorious govt can fund its civil service retirements ( up to
10x or 15x !!the average in the private economy, police and fire at
10x) by going after the half starved engineers turned handymen, in
competition with illegals with contractors licenses no less.
The government will most likely solve this problem by the path of
least resistance: printing up money over a long period of time.
Nah, even better. Not enough people know that banks actually create more
money than printing ever will. The only thing you have to do is keep the
economy going. For every dollar you deposit at the bank, the bank loans
out 95 cents of it the next day, which gets deposited into another bank,
and then 90 cents gets loaned out the day after, and the cycle goes on.
This is in all of the books on banking that I've seen. All you have to do
is read it and scratch your head. As long as the economy keeps going, we
don't have to worry. You need to read Edward Griffin's book "The Creature
how money works. Much better than Galbreath's book on Money.
indeed I should read it... in the meantime do you have a short
review.
No, I have a long review: here it is...


"The Creature from Jekyll Island: A Second Look at the Federal
Reserve" by G. Edward Griffin ( ISBN 0912986182 ) Second edition
(fifth printing), 608 pp. I think there is a 3rd edition, now.

What attracted more of my interest was the blurb on the back:

"Where does money come from? Where does it go? Who makes it? The
money magicians' secrets are unveiled. We get a close look at their
mirrors, their pulleys, cogs, and wheels that create the grand
illusion called money. A dry and boring subject? Just wait! You'll
be hooked in five minutes.... This book is about the most blatant
scam of all history... the cause of wars, boom-bust cycles,
inflation, depression, prosperity."

Yep, I was hooked. From the table of contents:

"What is the Federal Reserve System? The answer may surprise you.
It is not federal and there are no reserves. Furthermore, the
Federal Reserve Banks are not even banks."

And the author explained all this in the book.

To give you an idea of what was involved, here is a quote from page
8:

"...riding in the car at the end of the train, were seven men who
represented an estimated one-fourth of the total wealth of the
entire world." I copied that correctly, one-fourth of the total
wealth of the entire world. They were: Nelson Aldrich, Abraham P
Andrew (Secy US Treasury, Frank A. Vanderlip (prez of the most
powerful bank at the time), Henry P. Davison (J. P. Morgan),
Charles D. Norton (J.P. Morgan), Benjamin Strong(J.P.Morgan), and
Paul Warburg (representing the Rothshild dynasty). Jekyll Island is
a real place and the meeting of these guys was kept secret for
years and even denied to have taken place. The meeting was to
create a banking cartel that did not look like a cartel or a bank
but was to allow private interests to make money (in more ways than
one) and shift any and all risk to the taxpayer.

I will say that after reading the book I was truly blown away (more
way below). Anyone reading this post can go to amazon.com and click
on books, advanced search, then put in the ISBN and look at that
page, or, copy and paste the URL below (watch out for CRs since the
line is wrapped).

===================

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0912986182/qid=1112
407833/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/103-3623641-9906207?v=glance&s=books

=========================
Amazon says that:

Customers who bought this book also bought

* The Case Against the Fed by Murray N. Rothbard
* Secrets of the Temple: How the Federal Reserve Runs the
Country by William Greider
* What Has Government Done to Our Money by Murray N. Rothbard
* The Shadows of Power: The Council on Foreign Relations and
the American Decline by James Perloff
* Tragedy & Hope: A History of the World in Our Time by Carroll
Quigley
====================
So, readers are not just casual and superficial.

And, Greider's book (see above) is another very amazing book (I
didn't read it, but I read book reviews and the blurb) where the
author did all the research in a very thick book that showed how
the Federal Reserve actually caused the 1987 stock market crash
(and I know people that lost a lot of money in this crash).
Griffin's book talks about all of these.

On a separate piece of paper, I listed all the pages of very
amazing paragraphs from probably 50 pages or more. I mean really
amazing. It is totally beyond me to quote these for your benefit.
Yes, wars were caused and promoted and had their financing arranged
by cliques and families of the rich or people who controlled money!
Its even a bigger deal than the book(s) on the Krupp family and
Germany. Conspiracy? Yes, England dragging the USA into the war
with the sinking of the Lusitania. It was all a setup.

The author is not a crackpot. The book has a large number of
references to the serious historical and banking literature. I
actually looked up a few, including one book on the sinking of the
Lusitania and a lot of the details surrounding the investigation.
The guy in charge of the investigation refused to take a fee for
the job (it was a coverup) and, later in years, said it was all a
"damned dirty business."

Also, right there on Amazon there are 82 reviews of the book. Yes, 82
reviews of Griffin's book. All that I read were better and more detailed
than the one I'm writing here. I had the distinct impression that the
authors of these reviews knew a lot more about the subject than I did.

Conspiracies? The book describes many and cites references. I
looked up just one:
==========
at:
http://www.bookfinder.com/search/?ac=sl&st=sl&qi=qv28kE4AkI1IPykZ
gYipqLoydJA_1971096349_2:29:80
"Tragedy and Hope..." by Caroll Quigley
you should find the text below:

ISBN: 094500110X
Publisher: GSG & Associates, 1975.; Reprint. 1,348 pages. "The
powers of financial capitalism had a far-reaching (plan), nothing
less than to create a world system of financial control in private
hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the
economy of the world as a whole" - Carroll Quigley. Brand new
hardback. Satisfaction guaranteed by professional seller. All books
plastic-wrapped for shipment.
==================
The name "Carroll" is misspelled as "Caroll" in some places.

The author's agenda seems politically conservative and he is
definitely on the warpath to have the Federal Reserve system
abolished. Entities such as the World Bank, according to the
author, are conduits for the flow of money from the USA to
developing countries as part of "carrots" and "pitchforks" to alter
their political ways (including trade treaties, interal human
rights, etc.). I think that elimination of the Federal Reserve will
not happen (and at least not in my lifetime) and I'm not sure its
a good idea because it will surely cause major problems all over
the world. As far as the world bank and influencing international
political systems involving the flow of money and the author's
notion that we should get out of the UN and get the UN out of the
USA, I'm not so sure about that, either. I'd like to hear from the
oposing side before giving my judgement. However, as a lesson in
how money works and as a lesson in how private financial interests
of very small numbers of very powerful and rich people (or people
in control of very large amounts of money), it is an excellent
book. The author is in favor of returning to a form of money that
is either made of precious metals or at least backed by precious
metals. His case and arguments are compelling but I won't take a
stand on the issue without thinking about the issue a lot more.
But, as a forewarning of future "storms" of our economy and the
world's economy, its pretty clear to me that -- yes -- there will
be economic collapses and depressions again in the future and a lot
of people will be hurt and hurt badly.

The Federal Reserve is the US system of a central bank of a
government. The Bank of England is a similar central bank. Most of
the modern countries have their own central banks and, from the
book, apparently operate in very similar ways: they manipulate
currencies, arrange funding of wars, and the population at large
doesn't have the faintest idea what is going on.

Griffin also explains how the Federal Reserve was _causally_ involved in
the great depression of '29. The crash was engineered by the Fed and even
before the crash, rich people were warned consideralby in advance to get
out of the stock market. And, they did. And, how! The depression that
followed the crash was not anticipated and not meant to take place
(thanks to Murphy's Law and "The best plans of mice and men oft go awry")
but it happened and lots of innocent people got hurt bad.

I know I have dissed economists all over the place in recent years
but I have more respect for the "moneychanger" business and the
world of money, banks, and business in general. That is where there
is power and control, and as far as I'm concerned, the stuff in Griffin's
book is important and significant. I had the feeling, after
reading this book, that all of this "New World Order" has, under the
surface, still more machinations from the rich and powerful.



^Z




//////////
Post by phil scott
my guess, is that money is only a medium of exchange after all, not
the good itself, so that as long as the people can be coaxed into
producing goods and others lent enough money to buy them, all is well
in river city.
not such a bad premise either.
My life has been in trouble shooting various types of systems though,
so when I see a pig flying though the air, wonderful at it is, I start
looking for lipstick on it...once with the lipstick and you know
someone has put it on...its bogus.
accordingly I look for an underlying basis... vastly skinnier pigs
with wings? that would work... or maybe the pig is still fat as hell,
no wings..and is flying... was it shot out of a cannon? something is
behind the flying pig thing you see.
underlying any nations economy are both interim economic cycles, and
the life cycle of the host nation and peoples... at the end of the
latter cycle there are indicators.... skyrocketing exponential bloat
in the size of govt, production declines because of a lazy and/or
insufficient work force (due to over taxation by govt of the working
class, to fund the govt bloat). criminality ensues, wars are begun
to get the natural resources of other nations (vital at that point to
survival as production has gone to hell),,, the cost of the wars
bankrupt the nation.. with no strength in its people to fall back on,
govt collapses..... the nation reboots on the remnant....100 years
later it is viable again.
we in the US regardless of how we do our medium of exchange are fast
becoming non competitive in the world market, that translates to no
income besides loans...the current condition to a large extent.
When current actual income is less than the loan payments the nation
defaults,, loans cease, and collapse ensues.... even if they print or
the banks spin into being a billion dollars a second... its all
bogus. the world knows it.... there is insufficient production to
dig out of the mess.
Phil Scott
phil scott
2007-06-08 17:24:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@gmail.com
Post by phil scott
I think in the US there will be a big shortage of that talent....
however not abroad, a half starved chinese PhD in engineering can
spend all the time he needs to come to world class levels on that
software, and the work can be sent back and forth in PDF files etc.
Eventually India and China's labor may end up becoming "expensive"
thats wishful thinking in my opinion. why? there are 3 billion of
em in total, and these are graduating hundreds of thousands of S and
E;s a year, many from IT (india tech, a vastly superior school in many
(but not all) respects).

The US is graduating a minuscule fraction of that...and from my direct
face to face long term experience, most scientifically illiterate...
wall to wall...very very few exceptions.

it is the total volume of S and E;s coming out of the china and india,
and to a lesser extent russia that will keep those salaries down, a
supply and demand thing.


this is especially true now as the latest buidling design software for
instance will draw at a touch of a button or two, and adding a few
local parameters... an entire buildings piping or air conditioning
duct systems, extracting the load calcs from the materials of
construction that of course are already loaded as part of the
construction drawings..

now...that will NOT replace all of the engineers...just about 90% of
their work load.

the notion of freeing them up to do more advanced work is a viable
notion, maybe 10% will find room in that area.

that combined with the glut from china will keep those salaries low
and going lower imo. (about 9% of chinese S and E grads each year by
the way find work, the rest are kicked loose...when those find full
access to the US market, high end engineering will be a low rent
comodity...learnable anywhere in the world..on line)

the mistake we tend to make is to apply past observations and
conclusions to present situations, and that works.... much of the
time.... at times of massive change though it does not work, its a new
ball game... and yes thats distressing. most people go deaf in that
case to avoid overwhelming stress... not such a bad solution.... a
person needs the relief, at times its crucial.

longer term, the old dies out... every time.
Post by m***@gmail.com
too, such as what happened in Japan and Germany over the last 60+
years. Though how long this will take to happen is unknown,
considering the population of these two countries is in the billions.
One day the birth rate and population growth may very well start to
become negative in India and China too. When this day will come, we
may already be deceased. Maybe generation-Y and successive
generations will live to see it.
correct... now graph it out on a chart that has decades across the
bottom..you will notice that indeed you are correct... sort of like
the saying that mother earth will correct the errors of man...true.
Like an asteroid strike, all is fixed in just a few hundred million
years.

we as individuals however live on a much shorter string...for me, a
decade or two working at the most...others on the NG only a bit
longer. Charting for personal purposes will be different than
charting for say national life cycles.

china will indeed peak over the next half century... then stagnate,
decay and touch bottom again over the next segment of time (entire
cycle takes 5 generations as an almost iron clad rule, 260 years...
520 peak to peak)
Post by m***@gmail.com
Post by phil scott
I was also spending my money in the US, furthering the broader
economy. much of the HIB and illegals money is going
offshore.....accompanied by a huge sucking sound.
Maybe our glorious govt can fund its civil service retirements ( up to
10x or 15x !!the average in the private economy, police and fire at
10x) by going after the half starved engineers turned handymen, in
competition with illegals with contractors licenses no less.
The government will most likely solve this problem by the path of
least resistance: printing up money over a long period of time.
that is correct, it will hyper inflate the currency, and that
works. for about 2 years...then the entire mess hits the wall as
all investment heads out of the country.

we are already into the ramping up phase of the hyperinfationary
curve...despite the bogus CPI index figures...the real number is shown
in the dollar price of real goods, raw materials,oil, gold, real
estate... will the latest world class manipulation strategies work
to contain it? Bernake sure hopes so... I think it will actually...
for a time.


********
You cannot prevent a grossly bloated govt, that over taxes its
productive class to extinction from going broke however. thats the
bottom line.
that is the historical pattern.

as the public sector is driven to the pits, burocrats see too it that
their jobs last longer and that their relatives get hired onto govt
jobs as well... exponential bloat is already the case....its not
sustainable in the faintest.


driving such a mess to the pits at accelerated speeds, historically,
is the attempt by such a nation to capture its neighbors land or
rescources...war ensues.. the cost of the war drives the final stake
into the heart of such a nation...

that is regardless how well the war is justified....wars on that basis
cannot be won you see. Why? Because the attacker or nation is
wearing uniforms to preclude shooting themselves. The natives become
guerilla's, undetectable... they take the army guys out with rocks
and bullets at 10 cents each... the army uses 10 million dollar
rockets...killing civilians at a ratio of 10 to 1...creating more
guerilla;s

the guerilla's *always win in the end.



Back to the point of a job. Being a self employed free lancer will
get you out of the nasty self defeating political mess, and better pay
per hour...but its not easy.

a govt job works...and will probably work for another 10 year or so..
but I see it destroying those involved...mush brains, rationalizing
the disease. these are sick people in my view.

Free lancing with virtualy zero overhead...well one is free as hell
that way...with no taxable property one can live with a tenth the time
others spend working...not such a bad deal.


going for the gold in realestate? for some its OK I suppose. I look
these types in the eye regularly though...somehow its not on my path.








Phil Scott
Marco
2007-06-08 17:38:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by phil scott
The last man standing will be a beer drinker, with very low overhead,
and few if any taxable assets. Govt knows this. that is why so
many are encouraged to 'own homes'...even negative interest loans to
the totally uncredit worthy are being funded by Fed Bank loans.... a
person with a family in a house to feed, can be driven to work two
jobs, 20 hours a day if necessary...
Leverage.
without that, one is free you see.
The other thing that the corporations hold us hostage with is health
insurance. That's even less optional than a mortgage or having kids.

Marco
phil scott
2007-06-08 21:03:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Marco
Post by phil scott
The last man standing will be a beer drinker, with very low overhead,
and few if any taxable assets. Govt knows this. that is why so
many are encouraged to 'own homes'...even negative interest loans to
the totally uncredit worthy are being funded by Fed Bank loans.... a
person with a family in a house to feed, can be driven to work two
jobs, 20 hours a day if necessary...
Leverage.
without that, one is free you see.
The other thing that the corporations hold us hostage with is health
insurance. That's even less optional than a mortgage or having kids.
yes indeed. If i were a bit brigher myself Id switch to a much
cleaner diet, mostly raw vegitable juice, fish, salads and cutty sark
to sterilize it.

Phil Scott
Post by Marco
Marco
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