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tracing the roots of the modern conservative movement back to its fascist origins, and its destruction of the republican party
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This presentation appears in the July 7, 2006 issue of Executive
Intelligence Review.
The U.S.A.: Fascism Past and Present

by Clifford A. Kiracofe, Jr.

Here is the prepared address by Dr. Clifford A. Kiracofe, Jr. to an
EIR-sponsored seminar in Berlin, Germany on June 27, 2006. Kiracofe is
a former senior professional staff member of the U.S. Senate Committee
on Foreign Relations. Extemporaneous comments Dr. Kiracofe made as he
delivered his address, are included.

I would like to try to give some historical context to the current
political situation we find ourselves in, in the United States, and
also to try to establish some linkages or relationships, in a
historical context, between European Fascism, and fascism as it has
evolved in the United States this past century.

I thank our hosts for inviting me to speak today in our fifth meeting
at this fine venue. Colleagues who attended the last meeting in March
will recall I spoke on the theme of "U.S. Imperialism and the Rise of
the National Security State," a project undertaken by the imperial
faction in the United States for many decades now. Just as a quick
aside, you might trace our imperial faction, to the 1898 war with
Spain, as maybe a first real flowering of the some of the imperial
faction's activities. Today, I will present some background on Fascism
past and present in the United States.

In today's political situation in the United States we are, in effect,
confronting the same forces that attempted to impose overt fascist rule
in the United States during the 1930s. This is a story that is not
widely known in Europe, or even in the United States. Back then,
beginning in 1933, for example, a cabal of Wall Street financiers and
industrialists, who were enthusiastic supporters of Italian Fascism and
the German National Socialism, plotted a coup d'état against President
Franklin Roosevelt and our constitutional form of government.

My paper today considers briefly the following major points: first, the
current international situation and United States imperial policy;
second, the rise of fascism in United States politics; third, Wall
Street's attempted fascist coup d'état of 1934; fourth, Wall Street
and European Fascism, particularly Synarchy; and fifth, contemporary
American fascist ideology and the post-World War II era, that is to
say, the "Conservative Movement" and "New Right" in the United States.

U.S. Imperialism Constrained

What is the current context of United States imperialism?

At the international level, we see the emerging multipolar environment
developing. Russia is coming back from the trauma of the 1990s, China
and India are rising, and Europe, despite its internal situation,
remains nonetheless an international factor of undeniable importance.

We are not living in the so-called "unipolar world" fantasy of the
American neo-conservatives and that part of the imperial faction
influenced by such delusional policy ideas. We are living in an
emerging multipolar international environment which does now, and will
increasingly, place constraints on United States foreign policy,
particularly as the extent of American internal economic and social
weakness and vulnerability become apparent. External polling data,
since 2003, shows a collapse of United States prestige worldwide as a
result of the war on Iraq and other related factors.

The imperial faction has yet to adjust itself to international reality,
and this impairs U.S. national security, in the short, medium, and long
term. The imperial faction continues to attempt to consolidate a
transnational oligarchy subservient to Washington, through such
mechanisms as the Bilderberg Group, the Trilateral Commission, and the
Davos Group, among others. Dollar-based globalization is another
mechanism. But there is resistance as, for example, the Shanghai
Cooperation Organization indicates, and certainly, there are additional
calls for a New Bretton Woods to manage our international financial
system.

Rather than orient United States diplomacy to play a constructive role
in organizing the emerging multipolar world on Westphalian principles,
the Bush White House, since 2001, has sought to impose its concept of
unilateral global hegemony, with disastrous consequences.

Just this year alone, President Bush insulted China by his gross
mishandling of the state visit of Chinese President Hu Jintao. No
official state dinner was offered, and the White House gave press
credentials to a well-known Falun Gong activist, who then proceeded to
insult the Chinese President. Vice President Dick Cheney followed up by
insulting Russia during a major speech in Lithuania. As an additional
follow-up, Secretary of State Condi Rice proceeded to insult Russia on
its internal situation, and portrayed China as a "negative force" in
Asia.

Given Iran's powerful position inside Iraq and other factors, an
orderly withdrawal of United States forces will require a regional
arrangement supported by the major powers and the United Nations. The
United States must eventually make arrangements with Iran in order to
work out a regional settlement that would involve Iraq's neighbors,
namely Syria, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, and Kuwait. Such a regional
solution necessarily must be coordinated with Russia, China, the EU,
Japan, and the United Nations.

Gen. William Odom, a respected former director of the National Security
Agency (NSA), recently said that the war in Iraq is the greatest
strategic mistake in the history of the United States. I certainly
agree with the general's view, but would add that many of us were
saying this publicly back in 2002, months before the United States
launched the war. The ideologically driven imperial faction in control
of United States policy would not listen to reason.

When a nation makes a strategic mistake, it pays a heavy price over an
extended period of time.

The Vietnam War had many associated costs in addition to the
unnecessary loss of blood and treasure. The United States was alienated
from world opinion and from our European allies. But more than that,
conditions were created for severe domestic economic consequences.
These negative consequences arose directly from the massive costs of
the war, added to the costs of President Johnson's simultaneous massive
domestic "Great Society" spending program. Our society was torn apart
for years by the stress of an unjust and unnecessary war.

What were the negative economic consequences?

In one word: "stagflation." From the late 1960s until the mid 1980s,
the United States experienced inflation together with economic
stagnation, or recession. The Nixon Administration did not solve the
problem. The Ford Administration did not solve the problem. The Carter
Administration did not solve the problem. The Reagan Administration,
through a massive military spending program-we can call this
"military Keynesianism"-was able to alter the situation somewhat by
plunging the nation further into unnecessary debt. Finally, during the
Clinton Administration, the United States had a positive economic
recovery and performance that would have left our country in good
shape, had not the Bush Administration undertaken a catastrophic
foreign policy.

But, just in the last few weeks, we have started to see that old word
"stagflation" coming back into the public discourse. We have increasing
inflation together with a slowed economy, under the general condition
of "twin deficits," meaning the ever-increasing domestic budget deficit
and current account deficit.

Perhaps you did not notice that, in March of this year, the White House
stopped making public the "M3" monetary statistic. This political move
was, of course, undertaken to make more opaque the disintegrating
United States economic situation, with implications for the dollar, by
obscuring this significant measure of monetary inflation.

The Rise of Fascism in United States Politics

What is fascism? As one succinct definition has it: "Fascism is the
open terrorist dictatorship of the most reactionary, most chauvinist,
and most imperialist elements of finance capital."[1]

What are the main features of fascism? They include: the rise of a
demagogic leader sponsored by a plutocratic oligarchy, the curtailment
of civil liberties, the elimination of a free press, the emasculation
of labor and the labor movement, and the destruction of intellectual
and political opposition.[2]

How did this come about? Let's take a look at the 1930s in the United
States, the political situation then, which involved the rise of an
American form of fascism, unfortunately.

Prof. Gaetano Salvemini, a famous anti-Fascist intellectual and member
of the Italian Socialist Party, warned of a "new brand of fascism" in
the United States. While teaching in exile at Harvard, during the
1930s, he pointed to what he called "fascism of corporate business
enterprise in this country."

Other voices in the 1930s, confronting the fascist challenge, were
heard from members of President Roosevelt's own Cabinet.

Harold Ickes (1874-1952), a Progressive Republican who served in
Franklin Roosevelt's Cabinet during the New Deal, forcefully condemned
fascism in a speech to the American Civil Liberties Union on Dec. 8,
1937.[3] He pointed to "the ability and willingness to turn the
concentrated wealth of America against the welfare of America." He
said,

Let no one sleepily believe that our democratic form of government is
necessarily secure for all time to come. We have seen dictatorships in
other lands reach out and destroy constitutional democracies, states
combine not for protection but for aggression. We have discovered that
Fascism has not been quarantined, but that it is capable of leaping
wide oceans.

Well, what happened back in the 1930s? I would just interject,
parenthetically, that this is a time when our current President's
grandfather was quite active on Wall Street-that family was quite
active on Wall Street.

As I said at the outset, in today's political situation in the United
States we are, in effect, confronting the same forces that attempted to
impose fascism in the United States during the 1930s. Back then,
beginning in 1933, a cabal of Wall Street financiers and
industrialists, who were enthusiastic supporters of International
Fascism in Italy and Germany, and were well introduced to the higher
circles of Europe, supported various movements of international Fascism
in Germany, France, Italy, and England. Many of the American
businessmen involved, were intimately involved in business arrangements
with these very European financial and industrial circles. This cabal
plotted a coup d'état against President Franklin Roosevelt and our
Constitution. Let me recall the words of Ambassador William E. Dodd,
Franklin Roosevelt's Ambassador to Germany. While here in our embassy,
he watched American businessmen, one after the other, come to Germany
in support of the Hitler regime. In 1937, he referred to the American
section of the transnational fascist oligarchy of the era as follows:

A clique of U.S. industrialists is hell-bent to bring a fascist state
to supplant our democratic government and is working closely with the
fascist regime in Germany and Italy. I have had plenty of opportunity
in my post in Berlin to witness how close some of our American ruling
families are to the Nazi regime. They extended aid to help Fascism
occupy the seat of power, and they are helping to keep it there.

Fortunately, the 1933-34 coup plot was foiled by President Roosevelt.
But after Roosevelt's death, the cabal was able to continue its program
for a fascist and imperial America during the Truman Administration,
through the Cold War era, and down to today's White House and Congress.

Simply put, upon Franklin Roosevelt's election in 1932, the Wall Street
cabal took a decision to use strategies and methods that had been used
by Fascist circles in Europe, to gain influence and political power.
The Wall Street cabal was well introduced into the higher circles in
Europe that supported the various movements of International Fascism,
and the Nazi movement, in Germany, France, Italy, and England, because
many of the American businessmen involved in the Wall Street cabal were
intimately involved in business arrangements with these European
financial and industrial circles.[4]

The strategies and methods of which I am speaking include the formation
of action committees and mass movements, including violent
organizations, which involved political as well as religious appeals to
the middle and working classes. The elite circles involved in the Wall
Street cabal established their own higher-level organizations to
coordinate their own activities and the activities of the mass
organizations which they caused to come into being.

Wall Street's Fascist `Liberty League'

But let me explain a little bit more about some of the forces behind
this business plot.

Let me comment briefly on the activities of the so-called "American
Liberty League" (or simply "Liberty League") organization, a powerful
elite organization that the Wall Street cabal formed in 1933 and 1934,
and which operated until 1940. I will place particular emphasis on the
relationship between the fascist U.S. organizations and their
counterparts in Europe.

The Liberty League was interfaced with a variety of fascist
organizations, specifically modeled on European Fascist organizations
such as the French Croix de Feu.[5] The financial and big business
interests behind the Liberty League in the United States paralleled and
worked with the Confederazione dell'Industria-Olivetti, Agnelli, and
that cabal-that put Mussolini into power, and the
Thyssen-Krupp-Voegeler-Flick network that put Hitler into power.

The formation of the "American Liberty League" was announced on Aug.
23, 1934. Its intent was to overturn the New Deal, President Franklin
Roosevelt, and the Constitution. The leadership of the organization
comprised prominent members of the Wall Street plutocracy and a number
of prominent politicians, Democrat and Republican.

This American Liberty League was to impose a fascist form of government
on the United States, by working behind the scenes to influence
developments in high politics.

Among the key Wall Street and big business interests behind the Liberty
League were the House of Morgan, the DuPonts, and the Kuhn Loeb
investment-banking interests. Representatives of industrial interests
such as General Motors (controlled by DuPont interests), U.S. Steel
(linked to the Morgan interests), and Remington Arms (controlled by
DuPont) were also deeply involved. The publishing industry was
represented by the Hearst interests.

Members of the Liberty League organization were part of the prior
"Business Plot" of 1933-34 which had planned an armed coup d'état
against President Roosevelt. The plot was exposed by the very U.S.
Marine Corps general the Wall Street cabal thought they had recruited
to lead the coup, Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler, the man they sought to
impose as dictator on the United States. He played along with the plot,
and then immediately revealed the plot to President Roosevelt, whom he
greatly admired, and then exposed it publicly in newspaper interviews
and during testimony before a special investigative committee in the
United States House of Representatives, the McCormack-Dickstein
Committee.[6] The coup d'état was foiled.

Nonetheless, this organization continued to operate, publicly, and
included very top leaders of both the Democratic Party and the
Republican Party.

So now we can see a picture developing in our internal politics in the
1930s, involving top-level Democratic Party persons, including the
chairman of the National Democratic Party himself, even Al Smith,
former Democratic Party Presidential candidate, and top Republican
Congressmen and Senators, aligning against the New Deal, and aligning
behind fascism. So this is a penetration of both political parties,
which I would like us to bear in mind.

The McCormack-Dickstein Committee was established to investigate the
events of 1933-34 to determine to what extent an actual coup plot, had
been in motion. The committee concluded there had been such a plot but
specific information and testimony as to the Wall Street connection was
suppressed. According to the Committee report:

In the last few weeks of the committee's official life it received
evidence showing that certain persons had made an attempt to establish
a fascist government in this country. There is no question that these
attempts were discussed, were planned, and might have been placed in
execution when and if the financial backers deemed it expedient. This
committee received evidence from Maj. Gen. Smedley D. Butler (retired),
twice decorated by the Congress of the United States. He testified
before the committee as to conversations with one Gerald C. MacGuire,
in which the latter is alleged to have suggested the formation of a
fascist army under the leadership of General Butler.

MacGuire denied these allegations under oath, but your committee was
able to verify all the pertinent statements made by General Butler,
with the exception of the direct statement suggesting the creation of
the organization. This, however, was corroborated in the correspondence
of MacGuire with his principal, Robert Sterling Clark, of New York
City, while MacGuire was abroad studying the various forms of veterans
organizations of Fascist character.[7]

The work of this committee later led to the formation of the U.S. House
Un-American Activities Committee (HUAC) which was authorized to
investigate subversive Communist and fascist activity in the United
States. Congressman John McCormack later became Speaker of the House,
1961-71.

With respect to the Business Plot, certain features deserve scrutiny.
MacGuire, a Wall Street bond salesman, was recruited by a circle of
financiers to first collect information in Europe in 1933 about the
methods of Fascist organizations, and then to be the intermediary
between the Wall Street cabal and General Butler. MacGuire was employed
as a bond salesman by Robert Sterling Clark (1877-1956), Yale graduate
and heir to the Singer Sewing Machine fortune, and an art collector who
lived in Paris. MacGuire had been active in the American Legion, a
World War I veterans' organization established by the Morgan interests.

With Clark in the plot was Grayson Mallet-Prevost Murphy, head of a
Wall Street brokerage house and director of Morgan-aligned
companies.[8] Murphy, a founder of the American Legion, became the
treasurer of the Liberty League. Murphy, who was a graduate of West
Point, had a prior record of international intrigue and was used by
President Theodore Roosevelt for secret missions, particularly in Latin
America.

The American Legion war veterans' organization was established in 1919.
The National Commander of the American Legion in 1922-23, Col. Alvin
Owsley (1888-1967), put the matter clearly when he said, "If ever
needed, the American Legion stands ready to protect our country's
institutions and ideals as the Fascisti dealt with the destructionists
who menaced Italy. Do not forget that the Fascisti are to Italy what
the American Legion is to the United States."[9] In 1931, the National
Commander of the American Legion, Ralph T. O'Neill, gave the Italian
Ambassador to the United States, a copy of a resolution of the American
Legion Executive Committee praising Mussolini as a great leader.

The president of the Liberty League was Jouett Shouse (1879-1968), a
former member of the U.S. Congress from Kansas (1915-19), and President
Woodrow Wilson's Assistant Secretary of the Treasury (1919-20). Shouse,
a former chairman of the Democratic Party's National Executive
Committee, was married to a daughter of the Boston merchant Filene
family. The key members of the Liberty League itself were such business
and financial personalities as: William Knudson of General Motors;
Nathan L. Miller, counsel of U.S. Steel; Irene, Pierre, and Lammot
DuPont[10]; Jacob Raskob of DuPont and General Motors, and the Hearst
interests. Political personalities included former Gov. Al Smith of New
York, the Democratic presidential candidate of 1928. Raskob was a
former chairman of the Democratic Party National Committee.

Closely associated with the activities of the Liberty League, and its
satellite action organizations such as the "Crusaders," were
influential members of the board of the American Jewish Committee:
Irving Lehman, of Lehman Brothers; Lessing J. Rosenwald, chairman of
Sears Roebuck; Roger W. Strauss, director of Revere Copper and Brass;
Louis Edward Kirstein, vice president of Filene's; Joseph M. Proskauer,
who was a director of the American Liberty League; Henry Ittleson, who
was president of the Commercial Investment Trust A.G. of Berlin; and
Albert D. Lasker, who served on the Crusaders board.

The American Jewish Committee was founded in 1906 as a foreign-policy
lobby group that focussed on human rights in Russia. Its publication
Commentary, edited from 1960-95 by Norman Podhoretz, has been the
leading vector for decades promoting so-called "neo-conservative"
foreign policy and the destabilization of the Middle East.[11]

As for the Crusaders organization I just mentioned, it was an
anti-labor organization opposed to New Deal policies whose board
included Albert D. Lasker, as just noted; James P. Warburg; and John W.
Davis (1873-1955), legal counsel for the Morgan interests and U.S.
Steel among others. Davis was the former Democratic Party Presidential
candidate in 1924, and lost to Republican Calvin Coolidge. Prior to
this he had served as the U.S. Ambassador at London, 1918-21.

Additional satellites of the Liberty League were: the Southern
Committee to Uphold the Constitution, the Farmers' Independence
Council, and the Sentinels of the Republic.

I want to give you a little flavor, just as an example, of the thinking
of one of the participants in this business group, Mr. William Randolf
Hearst, a well-known publishing magnate in our country, who owned
hundreds of newspapers.

Hearst's involvement with the Liberty League is significant. The Hearst
interests interfaced with the financial interests of West Coast
financier A.P. Giannini's TransAmerica company, and Bank of America.
This bank reportedly handled Mussolini's financial interests in the
United States. The Hearst interests also interfaced with the British
imperial interests of Sir Henry Deterding and his Royal Dutch Shell
group, as well as with Lord Rothermere's interests in Canada.[12]
Deterding and Rothermere provided financial support to Sir Oswald
Moseley's Fascist movement in the United Kingdom. Deterding made use of
the shipping company operated by Hypolite Worms to move Royal Dutch
Shell oil around the world. The Lazard Frères Paris office handled
Royal Dutch Shell business in France. Furthermore, it was the Lazard
group that organized the Banque Worms in the late 1920s.

The Hearst interests controlled an important share of the Remington
Arms Corporation of which the DuPont interests had the controlling
share. Remington small arms were reportedly to have been made available
to 500,000 para-military forces operating in the service of the
Business Plot which planned to seize Washington, D.C., the nation's
capital, by force.

For clarity, let me illustrate press baron William Randolph Hearst's
attitude toward European Fascism and National Socialism, a perspective
also promoted by the Time-Life-Fortune publishing empire of Henry Luce.
Let me quote Hearst, speaking in the 1930s:

The fascist party of Italy was organized to quell the disturbances and
disorders of communism. The fascist party of Germany was organized for
the same purpose. It was intended to and very likely did prevent
Germany from going communist and cooperating with Soviet Russia. This
is the great policy, the great achievement that makes the Hitler regime
popular with the German people.[13]

That's probably the major publishing magnate in the United States
during the 1930s. And if you just take a look at Time magazine during
the similar period, you will note that Mr. Mussolini's picture appeared
on the cover of Time magazine five times.

The "Business Plot" conspirators of 1933, with additional supporters,
created the Liberty League in 1934. This time, the objective was to
combat the New Deal and replace Roosevelt in the Presidential election
of 1936 by getting behind a Republican opponent, which came to be Gov.
Alf Landon of Kansas, a moderate, and ironically, himself, a mild
supporter of the New Deal. Publicly, Landon-and the Republican
Party-rejected Liberty League endorsement.

Moderate advisors of Landon, however, were pushed aside through Liberty
League influence. One case in point was Prof. Andrew Cordier, who was
advising Landon on foreign policy and international relations. A few
years ago, a relative of mine, who was a friend of Cordier and one of
his former students, told me the story of how the Liberty League
intrigued against the professor. But Cordier went on to become
Undersecretary of the United Nations in charge of the General Assembly
and Related Affairs from 1946 to 1961. He then joined the faculty of
Columbia University and rose to become its president.

As the 1936 election turned out, Roosevelt crushed Landon, although
this did not stop the intrigues of the Liberty League network and its
successors. For example, during the Truman Administration, Dean Acheson
(1893-1971), an influential Washington, D.C. attorney, became Secretary
of State under President Truman.[14] Acheson had been a member of the
American Liberty League.

Is it any coincidence today that Condi Rice praises Acheson and
President Bush praises Truman? Certainly not. We can recall the close
business connection between the Bush family and pro-Nazi financial and
industrial circles in Germany, particularly the Thyssen interests.[15]

Wall Street and Synarchy

How did all this come about?

I mentioned the matter of "Synarchy" briefly at one of our earlier
conferences here in Berlin. Let me just make a few brief comments today
in that regard. Synarchy provided ideological orientation for Wall
Street circles with respect to economic, political, and social
organization.

For example, the American Liberty League itself promoted the social
ideas of Dr. Alexis Carrel, French biologist and eugenicist associated
with French Synarchist circles.[16] He had written a number of
best-selling books in the 1930s. Carrel's controlling ideas were
clearly expressed in his book Man, This Unknown (L'Homme cet Inconnu),
in which he argued for mankind to follow the guidance of an elite class
and to implement enforced eugenics for population management. It was
Carrel who had first suggested the use of gas chambers for eugenic
purposes on a mass basis. Carrel, in 1937, joined a well-funded French
research institute called the Centre d'Études des Problèmes Humains
(CEPH) operated by Jean Coutrot, an eminence of the French Synarchy who
also had ties to the British Fabian Society via the Huxleys and others.

I would note in passing that Carrel's ideas have influenced the
ideology of contemporary Islamic terrorism via Sayyed Qutb of the
Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood and Maulana Maududi of the Pakistani
Jamaat-i-Islaami.[17]

The word "Synarchy," and its associated ideology, was invented by the
19th-Century French occultist Alexandre St. Yves d'Alveydre
(1842-1909), who headed the esoteric Martinist Order. Born in 1842, he
adopted the outlook of leading European intellectuals of the extreme
right, Joseph de Maistre, Louis de Bonald, and the mystical occultism
of Fabre d'Olivet (1767-1825), Napoleon's personal occult advisor.

St. Yves created an extreme right ideology to oppose what he perceived
to be "anarchy," particularly what he perceived to be anarchy among
nations. He called his new ideology "Synarchy" and revealed it in quite
some detail in his book Mission des Souverains, first published in
1882.

The economic dimension of Synarchy influenced the "corporatist"
political ideologies and movements of the early 20th Century such as
Fascism. Corporative ideology called for the organization of society
with control held by the ruling oligarchic and plutocratic class. Labor
was to be crushed and parliamentary government was to be eliminated.

St. Yves' vision for Europe, as outlined in Chapter XII of his book,
called for organizing Europe through a regional (Europe-wide) council
composed of corporative chambers of economists, financiers, and
industrialists. At the national level, each country would have such a
council of its own. Through this process, finance and industry would be
concentrated, and become the main political power governing society, a
society in which labor was to be coerced into submission.

After World War I, we find in Europe the establishment of a number of
Fascist movements beginning with Mussolini in Italy in 1919, but then
spreading to France, Italy, Spain, Portugal, and elsewhere. A
remarkable feature of this political phenomenon was the spread of
secret underground networks promoting Synarchy in order to create
Fascist states and five Fascist regional blocs such as Pan-Europe,
Pan-America, Pan-Eurasia, Pan-Asia, and a Fascist British Commonwealth.

One significant vector in all this was the esoteric Martinist Order,
which penetrated many regular freemasonic lodges, creating a certain
dangerous dissidence. The French Synarchists formed their secret
political society in 1922 which was called the Mouvement Synarchique
d'Empire, as the French police and intelligence services discovered
over a decade later.[18]

This overall political phenomenon can be justly viewed as a
continuation of the well-organized 19th-Century reaction against
progressive liberal fraternal organizations and political movements
that fought for national unity, democracy, constitutionalism, and
parliamentary government.[19] One significant feature of 19th-Century
European politics was the creation of what we can characterize as
police states based to a large degree on the Napoleonic model. In the
20th Century, police states reemerge under republican guise.

Fascist Ideology:
The U.S. `Conservative Movement'
and `New Right'

Since 9/11, we can see an incipient police-state process developing
more openly in the United States under the framework of a so-called
"National Security State." But the foundations for this were prepared
for a number of decades.

After World War II, the so-called "Conservative Movement" in the United
States undertook the penetration of the Republican Party.[20] I would
like to make it clear that the traditional Republican Party, as
established by Abraham Lincoln, has nothing in common with the radical
right-wing ideology of the pre-World War II Liberty League or the
post-World War II "Conservative Movement" and "New Right."

Nonetheless, today's Republican Party is in the grip of the Wall
Street-backed "Conservative Movement" and "New Right" linked to a mass
political base of religious Fundamentalists committed to theocracy.[21]

The post-World War II "Conservative Movement" and "New Right" are
nothing more than the pre-war Liberty League operation in a more
sophisticated form. The Presidential candidacy of Barry Goldwater in
1960 opened the door to a penetration of the Republican Party by the
"Conservative Movement." As I pointed out in my paper here this March,
the Nixon Administration, influenced in particular by George Shultz and
his circle, took a dramatic turn toward the erection of an imperial
Presidency and National Security State.[22]

Today, the Bush Administration, unfortunately, replicates the Nixon
Administration, but is worse.[23]

Radical Right ideology is promoted through the organized intellectual
activity funded by a small group of private foundations backing a
so-called "conservative" and "neo-conservative" ideology that is, in
fact, similar to the European Fascist ideology of the 1920s and 1930s.
These foundations include: the Bradley Foundation, the Koch
Foundations, the Smith Richardson Foundation, and the Olin Foundation.
Associated "think tanks" would include the Heritage Foundation and the
American Enterprise Institute, both of Washington, D.C. These
organizations are, in essence, continuing the work of the American
Liberty League.[24]

The main intent, of either the American version of fascism, or the
European version, is to increase the power and influence of
international finance and big business in the internal politics of the
United States, first by attacking state institutions and their proper
role of oversight and regulation and, secondly by coercing labor.
Promotion of the so-called "Chicago School" and "Austrian School" of
economics is one method used in this program to promote oligarchic and
plutocratic economic and political power. A significant consequence of
this process for external policy is, of course, the promotion of an
imperial foreign policy in the service of international finance and big
business, and the promotion of so-called "globalization" to empower a
certain transnational oligarchy.

Key features of the contemporary "New Right" and "neo-conservative"
ideology in the United States are drawn from three main European
sources: Italian nationalism and Fascism, French Integralism, and
German National Socialism.

With respect to Italian nationalism and Fascism, we can see the
influence of Michael Ledeen, a specialist on Italian political thought,
who is a major neo-conservative thinker in the United States.
neo-conservatives, who control our foreign policy, by the way, appear
to incorporate elements of the nationalist thought of Enrico Corradini
(1865-1931) together with the Fascist program of Benito Mussolini.[25]
Most striking is the neo-conservative call for the United States to
have a foreign policy of "national greatness," which is precisely the
formulation of Corradini that inspired two Italian imperial wars
against Ethiopia. One can argue that, for the neo-conservatives, Iraq
is Mussolini's Ethiopia policy revisited.

The French integralism of Charles Maurras is paralleled in the American
"New Right," in both Protestant and Catholic manifestations. Maurras
himself was linked to the Martinist Order through his friendship with
its then Grand Master, Gérard Encausse (1865-1916), who was a follower
of St. Yves d'Alveydre. The Christian Coalition organization which
emerged in 1988, is but one example. In the last few years, we have
seen a revival of the ideas of the integralist Catholic, Jean Ousset,
himself a vector of Synarchy, and once the private secretary of Charles
Maurras, and, some French colleagues inform me, that Mr. Ousset's
operations after World War II, were financed by the Banque Worms group.

With respect to German Fascism, we can see in the United States today
the revival, over the last several decades, of the ideology of Carl
Schmitt, the Nazi jurist. This ideology, many believe, is directly
responsible for the police-state stance taken by the neo-fascist
"Federalist Society" of lawyers, established in the United States in
1982, who have worked inside and outside the Bush Administration to
erect what they call the "Unitary Executive." In Berlin today, I think
we should be frank and say the Federalist Society for over two decades
had been reviving the "Führerprinzip."

I discussed the revival of Carl Schmitt's foreign policy concepts by
Paul Nitze, and others, here in March. These concepts include the
concept of permanent "enmity" and "enemies," and the necessity for
"states of emergency." Such ideas were derived in part from the
writings of the Gustav Ratzenhofer (1842-1904), an Austrian General and
Social Darwinist sociologist.[26]

We can place the American Christian Right today within the context of
the Gleichschaltung [Nazification of all institutions] of 1933 and the
formation of the Protestant Reich Church. I would suggest that the 25
million hard-core fundamentalists forming President Bush's "political
base" in the United States-the 16 million Southern Baptists, in
particular, and another 9 million Adventists and Pentacostalists, for
example-parallel, although in a different form and in a different
time, the German Reich Church.[27]

In closing, I would like to suggest, with a sense of some urgency, that
colleagues here make an effort in their research and writing to focus
on comparative study of contemporary United States internal politics,
and external policy, with that of International Fascism of the 1920s
and 1930s.

Let me again quote Harold Ickes, the man who organized progressive
Republican support for President Roosevelt and the New Deal. Being a
Republican, I like to quote Mr. Ickes. In 1943, in the middle of World
War II, he said:

We should never forget that, in an era of unrest, a demagogue even as
fantastic as Hitler first appeared to be can develop at such a pace
that, before we realize it, he is beyond our catching. There are men
here, and in England and in France as well, who believe in their hearts
that a dictatorship is more desirable than democratic
self-government.... That type of American big business and concentrated
wealth are not afraid of a dictatorship, even such a one as Hitler's,
is attested by recent shocking disclosures with respect to secret and
intimate business alliances between them and German big
business-alliances that deliberately strike at the common man.[28]

[1] 13th Plenum of the Executive Committee of the Communist
International, Moscow 1933.

[2] For background see, Hans Rogger and Eugen Weber eds., The European
Right. A Historical Profile (Berkeley: University of California Press,
1966) and Ernst Nolte, Der Faschismus in seiner Epoche. Action
française, italienischer Faschismus, Nationalsozialismus, (Munich:
1965).

[3] For valuable insight into the New Deal, see, The Secret Diary of
Harold L. Ickes. The First Thousand Days 1933-1936 (New York: Simon &
Schuster, 1953).

[4] For background, see, Charles Higham, Trading with the Enemy. The
Nazi-American Money Plot 1933-1949 (New York: Barnes and Noble, 1983);
William C. McNeill, American Money and the Weimar Republic. Economics
and Politics on the Eve of the Great Depression (New York: Columbia
University Press, 1986); Henry Ashby Turner, Jr., German Big Business
and the Rise of Hitler (New York: Oxford, 1985); Joseph Borkin, The
Crime and Punishment of I.G. Farben (New York: The Free Press, 1978);
Richard Sasuly, IG Farben (New York: Boni Gaer, 1947); L. Wulfsohn et
G. Wernle, L'Evasion des Capitaux Alemands (Paris: Société Anonyme
d'Editions, 1923; P.F. de Villemarest, Les Sources Financières du
Nazisme (Cierrey, France: Editions CEI, 1984).

[5] For background on the French Right see, Eugen Weber, "France," in
Rogger and Weber, op. cit. pp. 71-127.

[6] The members of the committee were: John W. McCormack (D-Mass.),
Samuel Dickstein (D-N. Y.), Carl May Weideman (D-Mich.), Charles Kramer
(D-Calif.), Thomas A. Jenkins (R-Ohio), James Willis Taylor (R-Tenn.),
Ulysses Samuel Guyer (R-Kan.), Thomas W. Hardwick, Counsel.

[7] U.S. House of Representatives, 74th Congress, 1st Session, The
Special Committee on Un-American Activities Authorized to Investigate
Nazi Propaganda and Certain Other Propaganda Activities.

[8] He was a director of the Guaranty Trust Company, Anaconda Copper,
Chile Copper, Goodyear Tire, Bethlehem Steel, and the New York
Transportation Company. He was decorated with the Crown of Italy by the
Italian Fascist regime.

[9] As quoted in the Journal of the National Education Association. See
the Owsley related website: http://www.library.unt.edu/archives/
Owsley/openingpage/index.htm.

[10] Lammot (1880-1952), Irénée (1876-1963), and Pierre (1870-1954)
DuPont were the sons of Lammot DuPont (1831-84) and Mary Belin
(1839-1913), who was of Jewish ancestry. For background see, Leonard
Mosely, Blood Relations. The Rise and Fall of the duPonts of Delaware
(New York: Atheneum, 1980).

[11] See President Bush's speeches to the American Jewish Committee:
"President Attends the American Jewish Committees Centennial Dinner,"
May 4, 2006 at http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/
releases/2006/05/20060504-15.html and "Remarks By the President to the
American Jewish Committee," May 3, 2001 at
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/ releases/2001/05/20010504.html.

[12] On Deterding see, Glyn Roberts, The Most Powerful Man in the
World. The Life of Sir Henry Deterding (New York: Covici Friede, 1938).

[13] As quoted in George Seldes, You Can't Do That (1937), p. 222.

[14] Acheson's father, Rev. Edward Campion Acheson, an Englishman, was
an Anglican priest who served in Canada before immigrating to the
United States and later becoming Bishop of Connecticut. His mother,
Eleanor Gooderham, was the granddaughter of William Gooderham, a
Canadian distillery magnate.

[15] See, Kevin Phillips, American Dynasty. Aristocracy, Fortune, and
the Politics of Deceit in the House of Bush (New York: Viking, 2004),
passim.

[16] Frederick Rudolph, "The American Liberty League, 1934-1940," The
American Historical Review, Vol. 56, No. 1 (Oct. 1950), p. 28.

[17] Rudolph Walter, "Die seltsamen Lehren des Doktor Carrel. Wie ein
katholischer Arzt aus Frankreich zum Vordenker der radikalen Islamisten
wurde," Die Zeit, 31.07.03, No. 32.

[18] See, Geoffroy de Charnay [pseud.], Synarchie. Panorama de 25
***@aaes d'Activité Occulte (Paris: Editions Médicis, 1946).

[19] For background see, Frederick B. Artz, Reaction and Revolution
1814-1832 (New York: Harpers, 1934).

[20] For background see, George H. Nash, The Conservative Intellectual
Movement in the United States Since 1945 (New York: Basic Books, 1976)
and Shadia Drury, Leo Strauss and the American Right (New York: St.
Martin's Press, 1999).

[21] See, Kevin Phillips, American Theocracy (New York: Viking, 2006).

[22] Arthur M. Schlesinger, Jr., The Imperial Presidency (Boston:
Houghton Mifflin, 1973).

[23] See, John W. Dean, Worse Than Watergate. The Secret Presidency of
George W. Bush (New York: Little Brown, 2004).

[24] For background information, see, RIGHT WEB at
http://rightweb.irc-online.org

[25] For background on the Right in Italy see, Salvatore Saladino,
"Italy," in Rogger and Weber, op. cit., pp. 208-260.

[26] For example, see, Gustav Ratzenhofer, Wesen und Zweck der Politik
(Leizig, 1893).

[27] See the speech of Secretary of State Rice to the Southern Baptist
Convention Annual Meeting, June 14, 2006.
http://www.state.gov/secretary/rm/2006/67896.htm

[28] Harold Ickes, The Autobiography of a Curmudgeon, Reynal &
Hitchcock, (1943).

©2006 by Clifford A. Kiracofe, Jr. All Rights Reserved
Topaz
2006-09-29 01:28:05 UTC
Permalink
Here is a quote from Mein Kampf:

"The fight which Fascist Italy waged against Jewry's three
principal weapons, the profound reasons for which may not of been
consciously understood (though I do not believe this myself) furnishes
the best proof that the poison fangs of that Power which transcends
all State boundaries are being drawn, even though in an indirect way.
The prohibition of Freemasonry and secret societies, the suppression
of the supranational Press and the definite abolition of Marxism,
together with the steadily increasing consolidation of the Fascist
concept of the State--all this will enable the Italian Government, in
the course of some years, to advance more and more the interests of
the Italian people without paying any attention to the hissing of the
Jewish world-hydra.
"The English situation is not so favorable. In that country
which has 'the freest democracy' the Jew dictates his will, almost
unrestrained but indirectly, through his influence on public opinion."


http://www.nationalvanguard.org http://www.natvan.com
http://www.thebirdman.org http://www.ihr.org/
BroTher zAchary
2006-09-29 22:43:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by V***@tcq.net
http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2006/3327kiracoff_berlin.html
Lyndon LaRouche? Bwahahaha! Did they ever let that nutcase out of
prison? Interesting to see his paranoid minions are still spreading the
love.
Bob Kolker
2006-09-30 00:31:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by BroTher zAchary
Post by V***@tcq.net
http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2006/3327kiracoff_berlin.html
Lyndon LaRouche? Bwahahaha! Did they ever let that nutcase out of
prison? Interesting to see his paranoid minions are still spreading the
love.
Yes and Yes. His followers constitute a cult.

Bob Kolker
V***@tcq.net
2006-09-30 00:33:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by BroTher zAchary
Post by V***@tcq.net
http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2006/3327kiracoff_berlin.html
Lyndon LaRouche? Bwahahaha! Did they ever let that nutcase out of
prison? Interesting to see his paranoid minions are still spreading the
love.
i like to read many articles to glean some interesting information. i
have read many different types of political and economic articles, i
generally like to post those that have a kernal of truth to them
regardless of who they are.
i see in this article a kernal of truth. seeing how i have read much
of this information by other authors, there is much to expose in
america's foriegn policies from lots of sources.
what you need to do is to prove it wrong. if you cannot, then there
just might be a kernal of thuth to it.
B***@OnTheBoard.com
2006-09-30 02:28:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by V***@tcq.net
Post by BroTher zAchary
Lyndon LaRouche? Bwahahaha! Did they ever let that nutcase out of
prison? Interesting to see his paranoid minions are still spreading the
love.
i like to read many articles to glean some interesting information. i
have read many different types of political and economic articles, i
generally like to post those that have a kernal of truth to them
regardless of who they are.
i see in this article a kernal of truth. seeing how i have read much
of this information by other authors, there is much to expose in
america's foriegn policies from lots of sources.
what you need to do is to prove it wrong. if you cannot, then there
just might be a kernal of thuth to it.
Let's see if I have this right.....

You postulate "your" theory of grandiose accusations and
comparisons, and we have to prove you're wrong. Kinda like
proving someone is innocent.

Try looking in the mirror before you barf out this crap. Seems
to me the nazis didn't believe in innocent until proven guilty.
So, in essence, you are closer to the nazis than those you
are attempting to relate.

What hypocritical moron.
V***@tcq.net
2006-09-30 03:34:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by V***@tcq.net
Post by BroTher zAchary
Lyndon LaRouche? Bwahahaha! Did they ever let that nutcase out of
prison? Interesting to see his paranoid minions are still spreading the
love.
i like to read many articles to glean some interesting information. i
have read many different types of political and economic articles, i
generally like to post those that have a kernal of truth to them
regardless of who they are.
i see in this article a kernal of truth. seeing how i have read much
of this information by other authors, there is much to expose in
america's foriegn policies from lots of sources.
what you need to do is to prove it wrong. if you cannot, then there
just might be a kernal of thuth to it.
Let's see if I have this right.....
You postulate "your" theory of grandiose accusations and
comparisons, and we have to prove you're wrong. Kinda like
proving someone is innocent.
(er, i think you mean innocent until proven guilty, correct? if that is
the case, what are you talking about. if you do not like it, say why
with a little empiracle evidence. prove it wrong. otherwise any idiot
can insult, so go where the idiots go to on a friday night, a bar. get
drunk, then you can insult someone you do not agree with, or do
something original like using your brain to prove your point)
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Try looking in the mirror before you barf out this crap. Seems
to me the nazis didn't believe in innocent until proven guilty.
So, in essence, you are closer to the nazis than those you
are attempting to relate.
(what are you talking about, are you just getting home from friday
night happy hour? if you do not like other points of view, prove them
wrong, if you do not have the capability to prove them wrong, then do
not read posts because you seem to have a problem with any one who does
not agree with you.)
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
What hypocritical moron.
(i think not. if you do not like the idea of the ability of people to
freely express their views, than what are you? or i am responding to a
little immature boy perhaps, who does not like what he is reading, but
does not know how to properly respond?)
B***@OnTheBoard.com
2006-09-30 16:42:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by V***@tcq.net
(i think not. if you do not like the idea of the ability of people to
freely express their views, than what are you? or i am responding to a
little immature boy perhaps, who does not like what he is reading, but
does not know how to properly respond?)
How can you respond to conspiracy kooks? You cannot. People
like you thrive on this crap. You must have lots of time on your
hands to come up with this shit. Sad.
V***@tcq.net
2006-09-30 17:44:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by V***@tcq.net
(i think not. if you do not like the idea of the ability of people to
freely express their views, than what are you? or i am responding to a
little immature boy perhaps, who does not like what he is reading, but
does not know how to properly respond?)
How can you respond to conspiracy kooks? You cannot. People
like you thrive on this crap. You must have lots of time on your
hands to come up with this shit. Sad.
humans conspire, its a fact. you have nothing.
B***@OnTheBoard.com
2006-09-30 19:16:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by V***@tcq.net
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by V***@tcq.net
(i think not. if you do not like the idea of the ability of people to
freely express their views, than what are you? or i am responding to a
little immature boy perhaps, who does not like what he is reading, but
does not know how to properly respond?)
How can you respond to conspiracy kooks? You cannot. People
like you thrive on this crap. You must have lots of time on your
hands to come up with this shit. Sad.
humans conspire, its a fact. you have nothing.
you have nothing either.
V***@tcq.net
2006-10-01 03:17:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by V***@tcq.net
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by V***@tcq.net
(i think not. if you do not like the idea of the ability of people to
freely express their views, than what are you? or i am responding to a
little immature boy perhaps, who does not like what he is reading, but
does not know how to properly respond?)
How can you respond to conspiracy kooks? You cannot. People
like you thrive on this crap. You must have lots of time on your
hands to come up with this shit. Sad.
humans conspire, its a fact. you have nothing.
you have nothing either.
ah, not so. you have shown me no empiracle evidence. you have
insinuated things, and insulted me. but that is not evidence, any child
can do that.
so where is the beef, or perhaps you have nothing?
or perhaps i was getting to close for comfort, anything in there that
might have turned you face a little red perhaps? maybe a little to
close for your comfort zone with your own ideology?
B***@OnTheBoard.com
2006-10-01 16:46:40 UTC
Permalink
Okay numb-nuts.....

A statistical analysis by Doug Henwood, editor of the liberal newsletter
Left Business Observer, found that an "uncanny" 78% of the movement
in Bush's ratings could be correlated with changes in gas prices. Based
on trends in crude oil prices, Henwood predicted last Thursday that it
"wouldn't be surprising to see his approval numbers rise into the mid-40s."

In a USA TODAY/Gallup Poll taken Friday through Sunday, Bush's rating
rose to 44%, his highest in a year.

Wait a second....according to fib-erals his approval numbers had to do
with his policies, not gas prices!

Countdown to liberal kook conspiracy outrage (again)...............
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WHEN CONSPIRACY IS A SUBSTITUTE FOR INTELLECTUAL
THOUGHT

As usual, when something of such magnitude as 9/11 occurs, the
Conspiracy kooks have to come out of the woodwork spinning tales of
Government complicity and high level top secret orders. Oh, if only life
were really the X-Files. No, real life is much more complex than that.

9/11 was a military operation that many military minded folks in secret
marvel at. Not because of the death toll, oh no, it is much deeper than
that. This plan was hatched in 3 countries, in complete secrecy with no
leaks to the New York Times and last but not least, conducted with near
perfect "Time on Target".

The plot for 9/11 was initially conceived in 1994 in Manila Philippines.
Hmmmm, let's see here, who was president in 1994??? Oh yeah, Klintoon.

A lenient government with weak aircraft protocol gave them a place in
which they could take flights out to "case" their target. It also gave them
a country to operate in relative safety seeing how the then Ramos
government had their hands full with the Abu Sayyaf and that a few Arabs
running around Manila wouldn't gather all that much attention. All of that
gave them a laboratory that JFK and NYC could never provide them.

The thing to remember with our enemy is they are patient, waiting for the
perfect time to strike for maximum terror and effect. As a military tactician,
the 9/11 plot was pure offensive genius. Take one of your enemy's strengths
and turn it into a weakness. American airpower and commercial might
turned into fully fueled missiles took cruelness yet genius that tells me,
we are in a fight like none other in the history of man.

Why can't anything be what it is? Why can't people accept the fact that
radical Islamists with a hatred of the West made good on a promise to
make war with the United States? After Al Qaeda attacked the World
Trade Center the first time, then blew up a couple of embassies, the
Khobar Towers, The USS Cole and allegedly funded the Aidid government
in Somalia, why do we think it is anyone else?

And again, who was president then? Hmmmm, oh yeah, Klintoon again.
Billie Im-Too-Busy-Fucking-My-Staff Clinton.

As for World Trade Centers 1,2 and 7. Their destruction was fully explained
by the engineer and architects who designed them and have no reason to
support a conspiracy by the "evil, oil beholden" Bush Administration or
the "Zionist" Mossad or whatever the Conspiracy kook community is calling
them nowadays.

WTC's 1 and 2 went down because too many supports were compromised
to bear the load for the damaged portions and WTC 7 went because in the
confusion of trying to rescue folks trapped in the collapsed towers, I don't
believe anyone realized WTC 7 was involved until it was too late.

Another thing to consider, the State Department and the White House both
leak like a sieve. Nothing happens in those offices without it getting to
someone at the Washington Post or the New York Times. If the "evil" Bush
Administration were even partially responsible for planning 9/11 to get us
into a war with Iraq, it is inconceivable that it would be a complete secret
and no one in the press would pick it up. Even if the press did pick it up,
do you think they would remain silent especially since it was so fresh after
Florida 2000? The press would run like the wind with the story that Bush
was going to kill 3,000 Americans to get us into a war to avenge the guy
who threatened to kill his Daddy. Come on, I know even you can't believe
that story. Even Scully and Mulder would be giggling their ass off on that
one.

Four hundred miles an hour is pretty freakin' fast. Fast enough to cause
an airliner to turn into nothing more than a Diet Coke can upon impact with
a solid cement object...say...like, the Pentagon. The fact that there wasn't
much left of the airframe that slammed into the Pentagon doesn't surprise
me. Actually it is par for the course. For you missile nuts, how come no
one picked it up on radar or satellite imagery? How come no fishermen out
over the Chesapeake reported seeing a missile inbound or hearing its
supersonic crack as it broke the sound barrier going by them?

Even if it was subsonic ordnance, it would still make a terribly loud screech
as it went by. One other thing, why would Bush allow his Solicitor General
Ted Olsen to put his wife on that plane if he knew the plane was just
taking off and turning around to slam into the Pentagon?

Face it guys, it was a plane that slammed into the Pentagon not a missile.

I know it is human nature to try and put answers to things but sometimes
the answers are there, you just don't want to face them. 9/11 was a tragedy,
a tragedy I am not sure that could have been entirely averted with the
political climate prior to 9/11. Let's face it, with the towers still standing how
many folks are going to agree with the airline security we now have to deal
with?

That's right, not too many. We need to remain vigilant, on guard and always
refuse capitulation in the face of terror.

You lib-loons are simply in denial. "Good gosh! If dems. were in control,
this would have never happened? Really? Then re-read the above again.
Can't comprehend it? Of course you can't, you're a lib-loon.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Conspiracy Theories Debunked

Healthy skepticism, it seems, has curdled into paranoia.

POPULAR MECHANICS debunks 9/11 conspiracy theories.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html

Blast expert Allyn E. Kilsheimer was the first structural engineer to arrive at
the Pentagon after the crash and helped coordinate the emergency response.
"It was absolutely a plane, and I'll tell you why," says Kilsheimer, CEO of
KCE Structural Engineers PC, Washington, D.C. "I saw the marks of the
plane wing on the face of the building. I picked up parts of the plane with the
airline markings on them. I held in my hand the tail section of the plane,
and I found the black box." Kilsheimer's eyewitness account is backed up
by photos of plane wreckage inside and outside the building.

Kilsheimer adds: "I held parts of uniforms from crew members in my hands,
including body parts. Okay?"

BUT SOME are still not convinced. Pathetic assholes.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/blog/science/1250722.html
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AIDS:Conspiracy or Unnatural disaster?

THEORIES THAT AIDS IS A GOVERNMENT
CONSPIRACY TO DESTROY UNDESIRABLE
POPULATIONS MAY MAKE POLITICAL SENSE, BUT
ARE THEY SUPPORTED BY FACTS?

The false conspiracy theories are themselves a contributing factor to the
terrible toll of unnecessary AIDS deaths.

http://mediafilter.org/CAQ/CAQ58TrackGenocide.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I could go on for hours, days, debunking you morons. But I'm not wasting
anymore time than I laready have trying to convince tin-foil heads such
as yourself........reality.

GROW UP!!!
V***@tcq.net
2006-10-01 19:03:15 UTC
Permalink
Okay numb-nuts.....


(good way to start out, a insult)

A statistical analysis by Doug Henwood, editor of the liberal
newsletter
Left Business Observer, found that an "uncanny" 78% of the movement
in Bush's ratings could be correlated with changes in gas prices. Based
on trends in crude oil prices, Henwood predicted last Thursday that it
"wouldn't be surprising to see his approval numbers rise into the
mid-40s."


(yes i agree with that, and i have stated so in another thread. people
are stupid, so what. that still does not refute that the republican
party has been hijacked by fascists.)


In a USA TODAY/Gallup Poll taken Friday through Sunday, Bush's rating
rose to 44%, his highest in a year.

Wait a second....according to fib-erals his approval numbers had to do
with his policies, not gas prices!


(so, people are gullible, i have stated that in many threads. it still
does not refute that the republican party is a party of fascism. you
have exposed your true self.)



Countdown to liberal kook conspiracy outrage (again)...............
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WHEN CONSPIRACY IS A SUBSTITUTE FOR INTELLECTUAL
THOUGHT

As usual, when something of such magnitude as 9/11 occurs, the
Conspiracy kooks have to come out of the woodwork spinning tales of
Government complicity and high level top secret orders. Oh, if only
life
were really the X-Files. No, real life is much more complex than that.


(many people live for this stuff. what separates some from others is
those who actually investigate, and look at the facts. the fact is,
republicans are fascists.)


9/11 was a military operation that many military minded folks in secret
marvel at. Not because of the death toll, oh no, it is much deeper than
that. This plan was hatched in 3 countries, in complete secrecy with no
leaks to the New York Times and last but not least, conducted with near
perfect "Time on Target".



(maybe you should be posting this on a x-files news group, it would be
more pertinent to them than me.)


The plot for 9/11 was initially conceived in 1994 in Manila
Philippines.
Hmmmm, let's see here, who was president in 1994??? Oh yeah, Klintoon.


(this still does not refute that the republican party has been hijacked
by fascists. a president that is not a fascist cannot control
everything, unless of course he is a believer in the fhurer concept, er
i mean Unitarian concept.)


A lenient government with weak aircraft protocol gave them a place in
which they could take flights out to "case" their target. It also gave
them
a country to operate in relative safety seeing how the then Ramos
government had their hands full with the Abu Sayyaf and that a few
Arabs
running around Manila wouldn't gather all that much attention. All of
that
gave them a laboratory that JFK and NYC could never provide them.



(this has nothing to do with has the republican party been hijacked by
fascists?)


The thing to remember with our enemy is they are patient, waiting for
the
perfect time to strike for maximum terror and effect. As a military
tactician,
the 9/11 plot was pure offensive genius. Take one of your enemy's
strengths
and turn it into a weakness. American airpower and commercial might
turned into fully fueled missiles took cruelness yet genius that tells
me,
we are in a fight like none other in the history of man.


(clinton warned them.)

Why can't anything be what it is? Why can't people accept the fact that
radical Islamists with a hatred of the West made good on a promise to
make war with the United States? After Al Qaeda attacked the World
Trade Center the first time, then blew up a couple of embassies, the
Khobar Towers, The USS Cole and allegedly funded the Aidid government
in Somalia, why do we think it is anyone else?


(again, not part of the subject which i need to remind you again, has
the republican party been hijacked by fascists?)

And again, who was president then? Hmmmm, oh yeah, Klintoon again.
Billie Im-Too-Busy-Fucking-My-Staff Clinton.


(yes i see a pattern here. change the subject which is, has the
republican party been hijacked by fascists?)


As for World Trade Centers 1,2 and 7. Their destruction was fully
explained
by the engineer and architects who designed them and have no reason to
support a conspiracy by the "evil, oil beholden" Bush Administration or
the "Zionist" Mossad or whatever the Conspiracy kook community is
calling
them nowadays.


(this is a journalistic opinion which may have lots of facts right, or
may not. it is not the subject at hand though which is, has the
republican party been hijacked by fascists?)


WTC's 1 and 2 went down because too many supports were compromised
to bear the load for the damaged portions and WTC 7 went because in the
confusion of trying to rescue folks trapped in the collapsed towers, I
don't
believe anyone realized WTC 7 was involved until it was too late.


(this could well be correct, i am not a 9-11 conspiracy buff. i do know
that the republican party has been hijacked by fascists.)

Another thing to consider, the State Department and the White House
both
leak like a sieve. Nothing happens in those offices without it getting
to
someone at the Washington Post or the New York Times. If the "evil"
Bush
Administration were even partially responsible for planning 9/11 to get
us
into a war with Iraq, it is inconceivable that it would be a complete
secret
and no one in the press would pick it up. Even if the press did pick it
up,
do you think they would remain silent especially since it was so fresh
after
Florida 2000? The press would run like the wind with the story that
Bush
was going to kill 3,000 Americans to get us into a war to avenge the
guy
who threatened to kill his Daddy. Come on, I know even you can't
believe
that story. Even Scully and Mulder would be giggling their ass off on
that
one.


(leaks are part of a democracy. a free press is also. so what, what has
that got to do with has the republican party been hijacked by
fascists?)


Four hundred miles an hour is pretty freakin' fast. Fast enough to
cause
an airliner to turn into nothing more than a Diet Coke can upon impact
with
a solid cement object...say...like, the Pentagon. The fact that there
wasn't
much left of the airframe that slammed into the Pentagon doesn't
surprise
me. Actually it is par for the course. For you missile nuts, how come
no
one picked it up on radar or satellite imagery? How come no fishermen
out
over the Chesapeake reported seeing a missile inbound or hearing its
supersonic crack as it broke the sound barrier going by them?


(sounds good, but again, what has this to do with has the republican
party been hijacked by fascists?)


Even if it was subsonic ordnance, it would still make a terribly loud
screech
as it went by. One other thing, why would Bush allow his Solicitor
General
Ted Olsen to put his wife on that plane if he knew the plane was just
taking off and turning around to slam into the Pentagon?


(probably all true, but again, what has this to do with has the
republican party been hijacked by fascists?)


Face it guys, it was a plane that slammed into the Pentagon not a
missile.


(probably true, but again, what has this to do with has the republican
party been hijacked by fascists?)


I know it is human nature to try and put answers to things but
sometimes
the answers are there, you just don't want to face them. 9/11 was a
tragedy,
a tragedy I am not sure that could have been entirely averted with the
political climate prior to 9/11. Let's face it, with the towers still
standing how
many folks are going to agree with the airline security we now have to
deal
with?


(lots of truth there, but again, what has this to do with has the
republican party been hijacked by fascists?)



That's right, not too many. We need to remain vigilant, on guard and
always
refuse capitulation in the face of terror.


(yes, but again, what has this to do with has the republican party been
hijacked by fascists?)


You lib-loons are simply in denial. "Good gosh! If dems. were in
control,
this would have never happened? Really? Then re-read the above again.
Can't comprehend it? Of course you can't, you're a lib-loon.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Conspiracy Theories Debunked

Healthy skepticism, it seems, has curdled into paranoia.

POPULAR MECHANICS debunks 9/11 conspiracy theories.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html

Blast expert Allyn E. Kilsheimer was the first structural engineer to
arrive at
the Pentagon after the crash and helped coordinate the emergency
response.
"It was absolutely a plane, and I'll tell you why," says Kilsheimer,
CEO of
KCE Structural Engineers PC, Washington, D.C. "I saw the marks of the
plane wing on the face of the building. I picked up parts of the plane
with the
airline markings on them. I held in my hand the tail section of the
plane,
and I found the black box." Kilsheimer's eyewitness account is backed
up
by photos of plane wreckage inside and outside the building.

Kilsheimer adds: "I held parts of uniforms from crew members in my
hands,
including body parts. Okay?"

BUT SOME are still not convinced. Pathetic assholes.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/blog/science/1250722.html
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AIDS:Conspiracy or Unnatural disaster?

THEORIES THAT AIDS IS A GOVERNMENT
CONSPIRACY TO DESTROY UNDESIRABLE
POPULATIONS MAY MAKE POLITICAL SENSE, BUT
ARE THEY SUPPORTED BY FACTS?

The false conspiracy theories are themselves a contributing factor to
the
terrible toll of unnecessary AIDS deaths.

http://mediafilter.org/CAQ/CAQ58TrackGenocide.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I could go on for hours, days, debunking you morons. But I'm not
wasting
anymore time than I laready have trying to convince tin-foil heads such
as yourself........reality.

GROW UP!!!


( i did a quick glance over of the original article to see what has
your article have to do with my post, and i cannot find any references
to 911 being a republican plot in my post.
are you yourself a anti-conspiracy nut who cannot understand that my
posting has nothing to do with what you just posted?
or did you slyly change the subject to take off some of the heat in
the article thats true, and to try to paint me as a conspiracy nut?
remember part of how propaganda works is to change the subject ,and
paint your opponent as a extremist.
but again, what has this to do with has the republican party been
hijacked by fascists?)
B***@OnTheBoard.com
2006-10-01 19:50:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Okay numb-nuts.....
(good way to start out, a insult)
I give what I get.
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
A statistical analysis by Doug Henwood, editor of the liberal
newsletter
Left Business Observer, found that an "uncanny" 78% of the movement
in Bush's ratings could be correlated with changes in gas prices. Based
on trends in crude oil prices, Henwood predicted last Thursday that it
"wouldn't be surprising to see his approval numbers rise into the
mid-40s."
(yes i agree with that, and i have stated so in another thread. people
are stupid, so what. that still does not refute that the republican
party has been hijacked by fascists.)
Of course you would. lol.
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
In a USA TODAY/Gallup Poll taken Friday through Sunday, Bush's rating
rose to 44%, his highest in a year.
Wait a second....according to fib-erals his approval numbers had to do
with his policies, not gas prices!
(so, people are gullible, i have stated that in many threads. it still
does not refute that the republican party is a party of fascism. you
have exposed your true self.)
I know, exposing the truth is a horrible thing for conspiracy kooks.
It really fucks with their head, and all that tin foil around it.
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Countdown to liberal kook conspiracy outrage (again)...............
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WHEN CONSPIRACY IS A SUBSTITUTE FOR INTELLECTUAL
THOUGHT
As usual, when something of such magnitude as 9/11 occurs, the
Conspiracy kooks have to come out of the woodwork spinning tales of
Government complicity and high level top secret orders. Oh, if only
life
were really the X-Files. No, real life is much more complex than that.
(many people live for this stuff. what separates some from others is
those who actually investigate, and look at the facts. the fact is,
republicans are fascists.)
The mere statement is ludicrous at best.

Smearing Republicans as war mongers and facists doesn't exactly win
too many converts either.

The Dems kill me on terrorism. It can't get any funnier. The position
seems to be "we hate the war in Iraq, even though most of us voted
for it", "we hate the Patriot Act, even though nearly all of us voted for
it", "but we are going to get touch on terrorism".

Really?

It really is Bush derrangment syndrome. The Dems could take the
Congress and impeach Bush and we would wake up tommorow and
we would still be in Iraq and the Patriot Act would still be law. They
wouldn't change a damn thing, because they know that if they cut
and run from Iraq and weaken the Patriot Act and there is another
9-11, their chances of ever holding national office again would be
about zero.

Instead of admitting the truth, which is they won't change a damn
thing, they come out with meaningless slogans like "we are going
to work with our allies", "we are going to use diplomacy", "we are
going to go after terrorists" blah blah blah.

Gimme a break.
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
9/11 was a military operation that many military minded folks in secret
marvel at. Not because of the death toll, oh no, it is much deeper than
that. This plan was hatched in 3 countries, in complete secrecy with no
leaks to the New York Times and last but not least, conducted with near
perfect "Time on Target".
(maybe you should be posting this on a x-files news group, it would be
more pertinent to them than me.)
No. It's purely for you. We need to get some of that tin foil removed.
It appears to be glued on.
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
The plot for 9/11 was initially conceived in 1994 in Manila
Philippines.
Hmmmm, let's see here, who was president in 1994??? Oh yeah, Klintoon.
(this still does not refute that the republican party has been hijacked
by fascists. a president that is not a fascist cannot control
everything, unless of course he is a believer in the fhurer concept, er
i mean Unitarian concept.)
You consistent "facist" fixation shows that your state of mind is that of
an obessesed conspiracy kook.
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
A lenient government with weak aircraft protocol gave them a place in
which they could take flights out to "case" their target. It also gave
them
a country to operate in relative safety seeing how the then Ramos
government had their hands full with the Abu Sayyaf and that a few
Arabs
running around Manila wouldn't gather all that much attention. All of
that
gave them a laboratory that JFK and NYC could never provide them.
(this has nothing to do with has the republican party been hijacked by
fascists?)
See what I mean.
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
The thing to remember with our enemy is they are patient, waiting for
the
perfect time to strike for maximum terror and effect. As a military
tactician,
the 9/11 plot was pure offensive genius. Take one of your enemy's
strengths
and turn it into a weakness. American airpower and commercial might
turned into fully fueled missiles took cruelness yet genius that tells
me,
we are in a fight like none other in the history of man.
(clinton warned them.)
That was nice of him. Guess that was the least he could do. LOL!!!!
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Why can't anything be what it is? Why can't people accept the fact that
radical Islamists with a hatred of the West made good on a promise to
make war with the United States? After Al Qaeda attacked the World
Trade Center the first time, then blew up a couple of embassies, the
Khobar Towers, The USS Cole and allegedly funded the Aidid government
in Somalia, why do we think it is anyone else?
(again, not part of the subject which i need to remind you again, has
the republican party been hijacked by fascists?)
There it is again. I knew this would be a waste of time. Trying to post
facts to a nut is folly. Enjoy your tin-foil moron.
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
And again, who was president then? Hmmmm, oh yeah, Klintoon again.
Billie Im-Too-Busy-Fucking-My-Staff Clinton.
(yes i see a pattern here. change the subject which is, has the
republican party been hijacked by fascists?)
As for World Trade Centers 1,2 and 7. Their destruction was fully
explained
by the engineer and architects who designed them and have no reason to
support a conspiracy by the "evil, oil beholden" Bush Administration or
the "Zionist" Mossad or whatever the Conspiracy kook community is
calling
them nowadays.
(this is a journalistic opinion which may have lots of facts right, or
may not. it is not the subject at hand though which is, has the
republican party been hijacked by fascists?)
WTC's 1 and 2 went down because too many supports were compromised
to bear the load for the damaged portions and WTC 7 went because in the
confusion of trying to rescue folks trapped in the collapsed towers, I
don't
believe anyone realized WTC 7 was involved until it was too late.
(this could well be correct, i am not a 9-11 conspiracy buff. i do know
that the republican party has been hijacked by fascists.)
Another thing to consider, the State Department and the White House
both
leak like a sieve. Nothing happens in those offices without it getting
to
someone at the Washington Post or the New York Times. If the "evil"
Bush
Administration were even partially responsible for planning 9/11 to get
us
into a war with Iraq, it is inconceivable that it would be a complete
secret
and no one in the press would pick it up. Even if the press did pick it
up,
do you think they would remain silent especially since it was so fresh
after
Florida 2000? The press would run like the wind with the story that
Bush
was going to kill 3,000 Americans to get us into a war to avenge the
guy
who threatened to kill his Daddy. Come on, I know even you can't
believe
that story. Even Scully and Mulder would be giggling their ass off on
that
one.
(leaks are part of a democracy. a free press is also. so what, what has
that got to do with has the republican party been hijacked by
fascists?)
Four hundred miles an hour is pretty freakin' fast. Fast enough to
cause
an airliner to turn into nothing more than a Diet Coke can upon impact
with
a solid cement object...say...like, the Pentagon. The fact that there
wasn't
much left of the airframe that slammed into the Pentagon doesn't
surprise
me. Actually it is par for the course. For you missile nuts, how come
no
one picked it up on radar or satellite imagery? How come no fishermen
out
over the Chesapeake reported seeing a missile inbound or hearing its
supersonic crack as it broke the sound barrier going by them?
(sounds good, but again, what has this to do with has the republican
party been hijacked by fascists?)
Even if it was subsonic ordnance, it would still make a terribly loud
screech
as it went by. One other thing, why would Bush allow his Solicitor
General
Ted Olsen to put his wife on that plane if he knew the plane was just
taking off and turning around to slam into the Pentagon?
(probably all true, but again, what has this to do with has the
republican party been hijacked by fascists?)
Face it guys, it was a plane that slammed into the Pentagon not a
missile.
(probably true, but again, what has this to do with has the republican
party been hijacked by fascists?)
I know it is human nature to try and put answers to things but
sometimes
the answers are there, you just don't want to face them. 9/11 was a
tragedy,
a tragedy I am not sure that could have been entirely averted with the
political climate prior to 9/11. Let's face it, with the towers still
standing how
many folks are going to agree with the airline security we now have to
deal
with?
(lots of truth there, but again, what has this to do with has the
republican party been hijacked by fascists?)
That's right, not too many. We need to remain vigilant, on guard and
always
refuse capitulation in the face of terror.
(yes, but again, what has this to do with has the republican party been
hijacked by fascists?)
You lib-loons are simply in denial. "Good gosh! If dems. were in
control,
this would have never happened? Really? Then re-read the above again.
Can't comprehend it? Of course you can't, you're a lib-loon.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Conspiracy Theories Debunked
Healthy skepticism, it seems, has curdled into paranoia.
POPULAR MECHANICS debunks 9/11 conspiracy theories.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html
Blast expert Allyn E. Kilsheimer was the first structural engineer to
arrive at
the Pentagon after the crash and helped coordinate the emergency
response.
"It was absolutely a plane, and I'll tell you why," says Kilsheimer,
CEO of
KCE Structural Engineers PC, Washington, D.C. "I saw the marks of the
plane wing on the face of the building. I picked up parts of the plane
with the
airline markings on them. I held in my hand the tail section of the
plane,
and I found the black box." Kilsheimer's eyewitness account is backed
up
by photos of plane wreckage inside and outside the building.
Kilsheimer adds: "I held parts of uniforms from crew members in my
hands,
including body parts. Okay?"
BUT SOME are still not convinced. Pathetic assholes.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/blog/science/1250722.html
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AIDS:Conspiracy or Unnatural disaster?
THEORIES THAT AIDS IS A GOVERNMENT
CONSPIRACY TO DESTROY UNDESIRABLE
POPULATIONS MAY MAKE POLITICAL SENSE, BUT
ARE THEY SUPPORTED BY FACTS?
The false conspiracy theories are themselves a contributing factor to
the
terrible toll of unnecessary AIDS deaths.
http://mediafilter.org/CAQ/CAQ58TrackGenocide.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I could go on for hours, days, debunking you morons. But I'm not
wasting
anymore time than I laready have trying to convince tin-foil heads such
as yourself........reality.
GROW UP!!!
( i did a quick glance over of the original article to see what has
your article have to do with my post, and i cannot find any references
to 911 being a republican plot in my post.
are you yourself a anti-conspiracy nut who cannot understand that my
posting has nothing to do with what you just posted?
or did you slyly change the subject to take off some of the heat in
the article thats true, and to try to paint me as a conspiracy nut?
remember part of how propaganda works is to change the subject ,and
paint your opponent as a extremist.
but again, what has this to do with has the republican party been
hijacked by fascists?)
Baxter
2006-10-01 20:43:26 UTC
Permalink
-
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Free software - Baxter Codeworks www.baxcode.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
It really is Bush derrangment syndrome. The Dems could take the
Congress and impeach Bush and we would wake up tommorow and
we would still be in Iraq and the Patriot Act would still be law. They
wouldn't change a damn thing, because they know that if they cut
and run from Iraq and weaken the Patriot Act and there is another
9-11, their chances of ever holding national office again would be
about zero.
Instead of admitting the truth, which is they won't change a damn
thing, they come out with meaningless slogans like "we are going
to work with our allies", "we are going to use diplomacy", "we are
going to go after terrorists" blah blah blah.
Gimme a break.
What's any of this got to do with consulting?

As far as Iraq goes, the longer we stay there the worse it's going to get.

As to going after terrorists, Clinton has a much better record than Bush.
r***@comcast.net
2006-10-01 20:56:36 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 1 Oct 2006 13:43:26 -0700, "Baxter"
Post by Baxter
As to going after terrorists, Clinton has a much better record than Bush.
Let's be fair. After 9-11 Bush did okay.

Of course it's easier to go after them after you create so many more.

________________
I am human; nothing in humanity is alien to me.
Terence
B***@OnTheBoard.com
2006-10-01 21:46:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@comcast.net
Post by Baxter
As to going after terrorists, Clinton has a much better record than Bush.
Let's be fair. After 9-11 Bush did okay.
Of course it's easier to go after them after you create so many more.
"Create"?

Is that like the "The devil made me do it" syndrome?
r***@comcast.net
2006-10-01 22:51:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by r***@comcast.net
Post by Baxter
As to going after terrorists, Clinton has a much better record than Bush.
Let's be fair. After 9-11 Bush did okay.
Of course it's easier to go after them after you create so many more.
"Create"?
Is that like the "The devil made me do it" syndrome?
It's like the NIE report that the invasion of Iraq has tripled the
number of anti-US terrorists. Or that Patterns of Global Terror Report
that reports terrorists attacks have tripled in the last year.

Events can have consequences. Bush's invasion of Iraq has created many
many more terrorists, plain and simple. You can't occupy a country and
kill 1000,000 of its inhabitants and unl;esh chaos and civil war and
expect it not to create an anti-occupier mentality. Well maybe YOU
can. But thinking people realize such actions have negative
consequences.

________________
I am human; nothing in humanity is alien to me.
Terence
Simple Simon
2006-10-01 23:24:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@comcast.net
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by r***@comcast.net
Post by Baxter
As to going after terrorists, Clinton has a much better record than Bush.
Let's be fair. After 9-11 Bush did okay.
Of course it's easier to go after them after you create so many more.
"Create"?
Is that like the "The devil made me do it" syndrome?
It's like the NIE report that the invasion of Iraq has tripled the
number of anti-US terrorists. Or that Patterns of Global Terror Report
that reports terrorists attacks have tripled in the last year.
Events can have consequences. Bush's invasion of Iraq has created many
many more terrorists, plain and simple. You can't occupy a country and
kill 1000,000 of its inhabitants and unl;esh chaos and civil war and
expect it not to create an anti-occupier mentality. Well maybe YOU
can. But thinking people realize such actions have negative
consequences.
Or, as MSNBC's Chris Mathews put it: "If in WWII we created 10 Nazi
soldiers for every one we killed, we'd never have won thar war."
--
"Modern Conservative: Someone who can take time out from bragging
about conservatives controlling the entire government to ask what
ideas the liberals have for fixing the mess Republicans have made."

- Mitchell Holman, news://alt.politics.economics
B***@OnTheBoard.com
2006-10-02 00:44:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@comcast.net
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by r***@comcast.net
Post by Baxter
As to going after terrorists, Clinton has a much better record than Bush.
Let's be fair. After 9-11 Bush did okay.
Of course it's easier to go after them after you create so many more.
"Create"?
Is that like the "The devil made me do it" syndrome?
It's like the NIE report that the invasion of Iraq has tripled the
number of anti-US terrorists. Or that Patterns of Global Terror Report
that reports terrorists attacks have tripled in the last year.
Events can have consequences. Bush's invasion of Iraq has created many
many more terrorists, plain and simple. You can't occupy a country and
kill 1000,000 of its inhabitants and unl;esh chaos and civil war and
expect it not to create an anti-occupier mentality. Well maybe YOU
can. But thinking people realize such actions have negative
consequences.
How many attacks in the U.S. since 9/11/2001?
V***@tcq.net
2006-10-02 01:02:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by r***@comcast.net
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by r***@comcast.net
Post by Baxter
As to going after terrorists, Clinton has a much better record than Bush.
Let's be fair. After 9-11 Bush did okay.
Of course it's easier to go after them after you create so many more.
"Create"?
Is that like the "The devil made me do it" syndrome?
It's like the NIE report that the invasion of Iraq has tripled the
number of anti-US terrorists. Or that Patterns of Global Terror Report
that reports terrorists attacks have tripled in the last year.
Events can have consequences. Bush's invasion of Iraq has created many
many more terrorists, plain and simple. You can't occupy a country and
kill 1000,000 of its inhabitants and unl;esh chaos and civil war and
expect it not to create an anti-occupier mentality. Well maybe YOU
can. But thinking people realize such actions have negative
consequences.
How many attacks in the U.S. since 9/11/2001?
you are a master psychopath, and a true equal to the masters before
you. here is what i posted, and what you refuse, or cannot refute,
"tracing the roots of the modern conservative movement back to its
fascist origins, and its destruction of the republican party"
instead like all psychopath's you have completely turned the tables on
me, and have completely changed the subject to clinton, and taken
charge of the subject.
you are a amazing case study of the use of propaganda, and blame
shifting. something i have noticed in the republicon
denial of self responsibility crowd.
B***@OnTheBoard.com
2006-10-02 03:32:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by V***@tcq.net
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by r***@comcast.net
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by r***@comcast.net
Post by Baxter
As to going after terrorists, Clinton has a much better record than Bush.
Let's be fair. After 9-11 Bush did okay.
Of course it's easier to go after them after you create so many more.
"Create"?
Is that like the "The devil made me do it" syndrome?
It's like the NIE report that the invasion of Iraq has tripled the
number of anti-US terrorists. Or that Patterns of Global Terror Report
that reports terrorists attacks have tripled in the last year.
Events can have consequences. Bush's invasion of Iraq has created many
many more terrorists, plain and simple. You can't occupy a country and
kill 1000,000 of its inhabitants and unl;esh chaos and civil war and
expect it not to create an anti-occupier mentality. Well maybe YOU
can. But thinking people realize such actions have negative
consequences.
How many attacks in the U.S. since 9/11/2001?
you are a master psychopath, and a true equal to the masters before
you. here is what i posted, and what you refuse, or cannot refute,
"tracing the roots of the modern conservative movement back to its
fascist origins, and its destruction of the republican party"
instead like all psychopath's you have completely turned the tables on
me, and have completely changed the subject to clinton, and taken
charge of the subject.
you are a amazing case study of the use of propaganda, and blame
shifting. something i have noticed in the republicon
denial of self responsibility crowd.
Whatever you say tin-foil man. Got your meds yet?
r***@comcast.net
2006-10-02 01:12:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by r***@comcast.net
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by r***@comcast.net
Post by Baxter
As to going after terrorists, Clinton has a much better record than Bush.
Let's be fair. After 9-11 Bush did okay.
Of course it's easier to go after them after you create so many more.
"Create"?
Is that like the "The devil made me do it" syndrome?
It's like the NIE report that the invasion of Iraq has tripled the
number of anti-US terrorists. Or that Patterns of Global Terror Report
that reports terrorists attacks have tripled in the last year.
Events can have consequences. Bush's invasion of Iraq has created many
many more terrorists, plain and simple. You can't occupy a country and
kill 1000,000 of its inhabitants and unl;esh chaos and civil war and
expect it not to create an anti-occupier mentality. Well maybe YOU
can. But thinking people realize such actions have negative
consequences.
How many attacks in the U.S. since 9/11/2001?
How many dead Americans from terror on Bush's watch?

300 on 9-11 and 2700 in Iraq (with no end in sight) and 340 in
Afghanistan, and ten times as many maimed and mutilated.

Meanwhile the number of terrorists and events has tripled.

"Mission Accomplished".

________________
I am human; nothing in humanity is alien to me.
Terence
B***@OnTheBoard.com
2006-10-02 03:35:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@comcast.net
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by r***@comcast.net
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by r***@comcast.net
Post by Baxter
As to going after terrorists, Clinton has a much better record than Bush.
Let's be fair. After 9-11 Bush did okay.
Of course it's easier to go after them after you create so many more.
"Create"?
Is that like the "The devil made me do it" syndrome?
It's like the NIE report that the invasion of Iraq has tripled the
number of anti-US terrorists. Or that Patterns of Global Terror Report
that reports terrorists attacks have tripled in the last year.
Events can have consequences. Bush's invasion of Iraq has created many
many more terrorists, plain and simple. You can't occupy a country and
kill 1000,000 of its inhabitants and unl;esh chaos and civil war and
expect it not to create an anti-occupier mentality. Well maybe YOU
can. But thinking people realize such actions have negative
consequences.
How many attacks in the U.S. since 9/11/2001?
How many dead Americans from terror on Bush's watch?
Inherited from Klintoon's inaction? About 3,000.
Since 9/11.............0.
Post by r***@comcast.net
300 on 9-11 and 2700 in Iraq (with no end in sight) and 340 in
Afghanistan, and ten times as many maimed and mutilated.
Volunteer army goober. Forget that did we?
Post by r***@comcast.net
Meanwhile the number of terrorists and events has tripled.
Where?
Post by r***@comcast.net
"Mission Accomplished".
r***@comcast.net
2006-10-02 03:48:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by r***@comcast.net
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by r***@comcast.net
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by r***@comcast.net
Post by Baxter
As to going after terrorists, Clinton has a much better record than Bush.
Let's be fair. After 9-11 Bush did okay.
Of course it's easier to go after them after you create so many more.
"Create"?
Is that like the "The devil made me do it" syndrome?
It's like the NIE report that the invasion of Iraq has tripled the
number of anti-US terrorists. Or that Patterns of Global Terror Report
that reports terrorists attacks have tripled in the last year.
Events can have consequences. Bush's invasion of Iraq has created many
many more terrorists, plain and simple. You can't occupy a country and
kill 1000,000 of its inhabitants and unl;esh chaos and civil war and
expect it not to create an anti-occupier mentality. Well maybe YOU
can. But thinking people realize such actions have negative
consequences.
How many attacks in the U.S. since 9/11/2001?
How many dead Americans from terror on Bush's watch?
Inherited from Klintoon's inaction? About 3,000.
Since 9/11.............0.
You still haven;t done your reading and so continue to repeat the
lies.

Come now -
Here's the short and simple version:
http://www.gpoaccess.gov/911/pdf/sec4.pdf
from the 9-11 report.
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by r***@comcast.net
300 on 9-11 and 2700 in Iraq (with no end in sight) and 340 in
Afghanistan, and ten times as many maimed and mutilated.
Volunteer army goober. Forget that did we?
Ah another big time chicken hawk, aye? Only to happy to let others die
for all your big tough talk.
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by r***@comcast.net
Meanwhile the number of terrorists and events has tripled.
Where?
World wide. Close your eyes and pretend not to see. YOu could ask the
British how they feel about it.


________________
I am human; nothing in humanity is alien to me.
Terence
B***@OnTheBoard.com
2006-10-03 00:20:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@comcast.net
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by r***@comcast.net
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by r***@comcast.net
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by r***@comcast.net
Post by Baxter
As to going after terrorists, Clinton has a much better record than Bush.
Let's be fair. After 9-11 Bush did okay.
Of course it's easier to go after them after you create so many more.
"Create"?
Is that like the "The devil made me do it" syndrome?
It's like the NIE report that the invasion of Iraq has tripled the
number of anti-US terrorists. Or that Patterns of Global Terror Report
that reports terrorists attacks have tripled in the last year.
Events can have consequences. Bush's invasion of Iraq has created many
many more terrorists, plain and simple. You can't occupy a country and
kill 1000,000 of its inhabitants and unl;esh chaos and civil war and
expect it not to create an anti-occupier mentality. Well maybe YOU
can. But thinking people realize such actions have negative
consequences.
How many attacks in the U.S. since 9/11/2001?
How many dead Americans from terror on Bush's watch?
Inherited from Klintoon's inaction? About 3,000.
Since 9/11.............0.
You still haven;t done your reading and so continue to repeat the
lies.
No lie - fact.
Post by r***@comcast.net
Come now -
http://www.gpoaccess.gov/911/pdf/sec4.pdf
from the 9-11 report.
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by r***@comcast.net
300 on 9-11 and 2700 in Iraq (with no end in sight) and 340 in
Afghanistan, and ten times as many maimed and mutilated.
Volunteer army goober. Forget that did we?
Ah another big time chicken hawk, aye? Only to happy to let others die
for all your big tough talk.
"Volunteer".
Post by r***@comcast.net
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by r***@comcast.net
Meanwhile the number of terrorists and events has tripled.
Where?
World wide. Close your eyes and pretend not to see. YOu could ask the
British how they feel about it.
In the U.S.?
r***@comcast.net
2006-10-03 01:37:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by r***@comcast.net
You still haven;t done your reading and so continue to repeat the
lies.
No lie - fact.
The facts are right below. You haven't done your reading. Tch. Ych.
Shameless liar.
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by r***@comcast.net
Come now -
http://www.gpoaccess.gov/911/pdf/sec4.pdf
from the 9-11 report.
________________
I am human; nothing in humanity is alien to me.
Terence
B***@OnTheBoard.com
2006-10-03 02:22:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@comcast.net
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by r***@comcast.net
You still haven;t done your reading and so continue to repeat the
lies.
No lie - fact.
The facts are right below. You haven't done your reading. Tch. Ych.
Shameless liar.
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by r***@comcast.net
Come now -
http://www.gpoaccess.gov/911/pdf/sec4.pdf
from the 9-11 report.
LOL! No author!
r***@comcast.net
2006-10-03 02:55:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by r***@comcast.net
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by r***@comcast.net
You still haven;t done your reading and so continue to repeat the
lies.
No lie - fact.
The facts are right below. You haven't done your reading. Tch. Ych.
Shameless liar.
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by r***@comcast.net
Come now -
http://www.gpoaccess.gov/911/pdf/sec4.pdf
from the 9-11 report.
LOL! No author!
It's the Fucking 9-11 Commission report MORON.

________________
I am human; nothing in humanity is alien to me.
Terence
Simple Simon
2006-10-02 05:10:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by r***@comcast.net
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by r***@comcast.net
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by r***@comcast.net
Post by Baxter
As to going after terrorists, Clinton has a much better record than Bush.
Let's be fair. After 9-11 Bush did okay.
Of course it's easier to go after them after you create so many more.
"Create"?
Is that like the "The devil made me do it" syndrome?
It's like the NIE report that the invasion of Iraq has tripled the
number of anti-US terrorists. Or that Patterns of Global Terror Report
that reports terrorists attacks have tripled in the last year.
Events can have consequences. Bush's invasion of Iraq has created many
many more terrorists, plain and simple. You can't occupy a country and
kill 1000,000 of its inhabitants and unl;esh chaos and civil war and
expect it not to create an anti-occupier mentality. Well maybe YOU
can. But thinking people realize such actions have negative
consequences.
How many attacks in the U.S. since 9/11/2001?
How many dead Americans from terror on Bush's watch?
Inherited from Klintoon's inaction? About 3,000.
Since 9/11.............0.
Move those goalposts! You're a waste of perfectly good bit-ink.

Bye!
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by r***@comcast.net
300 on 9-11 and 2700 in Iraq (with no end in sight) and 340 in
Afghanistan, and ten times as many maimed and mutilated.
Volunteer army goober. Forget that did we?
Post by r***@comcast.net
Meanwhile the number of terrorists and events has tripled.
Where?
Post by r***@comcast.net
"Mission Accomplished".
--
"Modern Conservative: Someone who can take time out from bragging
about conservatives controlling the entire government to ask what
ideas the liberals have for fixing the mess Republicans have made."

- Mitchell Holman, news://alt.politics.economics
r***@comcast.net
2006-10-02 05:41:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Simple Simon
"Modern Conservative: Someone who can take time out from bragging
about conservatives controlling the entire government to ask what
ideas the liberals have for fixing the mess Republicans have made."
_________
"It's extremely difficult to govern when you control all three branches of government," says Hastert spokesman John Feehery
Simple Simon
2006-10-02 11:16:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by r***@comcast.net
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by r***@comcast.net
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by r***@comcast.net
Post by Baxter
As to going after terrorists, Clinton has a much better record than Bush.
Let's be fair. After 9-11 Bush did okay.
Of course it's easier to go after them after you create so many more.
"Create"?
Is that like the "The devil made me do it" syndrome?
It's like the NIE report that the invasion of Iraq has tripled the
number of anti-US terrorists. Or that Patterns of Global Terror Report
that reports terrorists attacks have tripled in the last year.
Events can have consequences. Bush's invasion of Iraq has created many
many more terrorists, plain and simple. You can't occupy a country and
kill 1000,000 of its inhabitants and unl;esh chaos and civil war and
expect it not to create an anti-occupier mentality. Well maybe YOU
can. But thinking people realize such actions have negative
consequences.
How many attacks in the U.S. since 9/11/2001?
How many dead Americans from terror on Bush's watch?
Inherited from Klintoon's inaction? About 3,000.
Since 9/11.............0.
So the 2700 or so US soldiers who have been killed in Iraq weren't
killed by terrorists? That's not what Bush says...

...not to mention the 20,000 or so with loss of limb and brain
injury.
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by r***@comcast.net
300 on 9-11 and 2700 in Iraq (with no end in sight) and 340 in
Afghanistan, and ten times as many maimed and mutilated.
Volunteer army goober. Forget that did we?
Said another way: "They asked for it."
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by r***@comcast.net
Meanwhile the number of terrorists and events has tripled.
Where?
Throughout the world. Read the NIE ?
--
"Modern Conservative: Someone who can take time out from bragging
about conservatives controlling the entire government to ask what
plans the liberals have for fixing the mess Republicans have made."

- Mitchell Holman, news://alt.politics.economics
r***@comcast.net
2006-10-02 14:18:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Simple Simon
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by r***@comcast.net
300 on 9-11 and 2700 in Iraq (with no end in sight) and 340 in
Afghanistan, and ten times as many maimed and mutilated.
Volunteer army goober. Forget that did we?
Said another way: "They asked for it."
Or "Better them than me" the cry of the Chicken Hawk.

________________
I am human; nothing in humanity is alien to me.
Terence
The Trucker
2006-10-03 02:02:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Simple Simon
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by r***@comcast.net
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by r***@comcast.net
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by r***@comcast.net
Post by Baxter
As to going after terrorists, Clinton has a much better record than
Bush.
Let's be fair. After 9-11 Bush did okay.
Of course it's easier to go after them after you create so many more.
"Create"?
Is that like the "The devil made me do it" syndrome?
It's like the NIE report that the invasion of Iraq has tripled the
number of anti-US terrorists. Or that Patterns of Global Terror Report
that reports terrorists attacks have tripled in the last year.
Events can have consequences. Bush's invasion of Iraq has created many
many more terrorists, plain and simple. You can't occupy a country and
kill 1000,000 of its inhabitants and unl;esh chaos and civil war and
expect it not to create an anti-occupier mentality. Well maybe YOU
can. But thinking people realize such actions have negative
consequences.
How many attacks in the U.S. since 9/11/2001?
How many dead Americans from terror on Bush's watch?
Inherited from Klintoon's inaction? About 3,000.
Since 9/11.............0.
So the 2700 or so US soldiers who have been killed in Iraq weren't
killed by terrorists?
Most of them were killed by insurgents who, much like the everyday
normal Americans, simply want the Republicans to get to hell out
of their lives. It is important to note that Pinocchio Bush and all his
ardent fans are culpable for this travesty. But there are a lot less
"terrorists" than the number of insurgents and sectarian militia fighters
in Iraq. Do not let the Republican habit of conflating all bad things
under a "Satan" label rub off on you. To be sure the "terrorists" need
to be addressed and defeated. But that is simply not the same thing
as the others.
Post by Simple Simon
That's not what Bush says...
Who the hell cares what Pinocchio has to say about anything? I would
sooner listen to a tea kettle.
Post by Simple Simon
...not to mention the 20,000 or so with loss of limb and brain
injury.
All of this is the fault of the current Republican regime. At the root is
their lust for power and control.
Post by Simple Simon
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by r***@comcast.net
300 on 9-11 and 2700 in Iraq (with no end in sight) and 340 in
Afghanistan, and ten times as many maimed and mutilated.
Volunteer army goober. Forget that did we?
Said another way: "They asked for it."
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by r***@comcast.net
Meanwhile the number of terrorists and events has tripled.
Where?
Throughout the world. Read the NIE ?
--
"Modern Conservative: Someone who can take time out from bragging
about conservatives controlling the entire government to ask what
plans the liberals have for fixing the mess Republicans have made."
- Mitchell Holman, news://alt.politics.economics
Simple Simon
2006-10-03 11:13:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Trucker
Post by Simple Simon
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by r***@comcast.net
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by r***@comcast.net
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by r***@comcast.net
Post by Baxter
As to going after terrorists, Clinton has a much better record than
Bush.
Let's be fair. After 9-11 Bush did okay.
Of course it's easier to go after them after you create so many
more.
"Create"?
Is that like the "The devil made me do it" syndrome?
It's like the NIE report that the invasion of Iraq has tripled the
number of anti-US terrorists. Or that Patterns of Global Terror Report
that reports terrorists attacks have tripled in the last year.
Events can have consequences. Bush's invasion of Iraq has created many
many more terrorists, plain and simple. You can't occupy a country and
kill 1000,000 of its inhabitants and unl;esh chaos and civil war and
expect it not to create an anti-occupier mentality. Well maybe YOU
can. But thinking people realize such actions have negative
consequences.
How many attacks in the U.S. since 9/11/2001?
How many dead Americans from terror on Bush's watch?
Inherited from Klintoon's inaction? About 3,000.
Since 9/11.............0.
So the 2700 or so US soldiers who have been killed in Iraq weren't
killed by terrorists?
Most of them were killed by insurgents who, much like the everyday
normal Americans, simply want the Republicans to get to hell out
of their lives.
You misunderstand. I simply use the words of Bush against the GOP
Youth member. Bush says we're fighting terrorists in Iraq, so in
Bushspeak that means our soldiers are getting killed and wounded by
terrorists.
Post by The Trucker
It is important to note that Pinocchio Bush and all his
ardent fans are culpable for this travesty. But there are a lot less
"terrorists" than the number of insurgents and sectarian militia fighters
in Iraq. Do not let the Republican habit of conflating all bad things
under a "Satan" label rub off on you. To be sure the "terrorists" need
to be addressed and defeated. But that is simply not the same thing
as the others.
Post by Simple Simon
That's not what Bush says...
Who the hell cares what Pinocchio has to say about anything? I would
sooner listen to a tea kettle.
Post by Simple Simon
...not to mention the 20,000 or so with loss of limb and brain
injury.
All of this is the fault of the current Republican regime. At the root is
their lust for power and control.
You're actually preaching to the choir.
Post by The Trucker
Post by Simple Simon
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by r***@comcast.net
300 on 9-11 and 2700 in Iraq (with no end in sight) and 340 in
Afghanistan, and ten times as many maimed and mutilated.
Volunteer army goober. Forget that did we?
Said another way: "They asked for it."
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by r***@comcast.net
Meanwhile the number of terrorists and events has tripled.
Where?
Throughout the world. Read the NIE ?
--
"Modern Conservative: Someone who can take time out from bragging
about conservatives controlling the entire government to ask what
plans the liberals have for fixing the mess Republicans have made."
- Mitchell Holman, news://alt.politics.economics
--
"Modern Conservative: Someone who can take time out from bragging
about conservatives controlling the entire government to ask what
ideas the liberals have for fixing the mess Republicans have made."

- Mitchell Holman, news://alt.politics.economics
Simple Simon
2006-10-02 01:54:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by r***@comcast.net
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by r***@comcast.net
Post by Baxter
As to going after terrorists, Clinton has a much better record than Bush.
Let's be fair. After 9-11 Bush did okay.
Of course it's easier to go after them after you create so many more.
"Create"?
Is that like the "The devil made me do it" syndrome?
It's like the NIE report that the invasion of Iraq has tripled the
number of anti-US terrorists. Or that Patterns of Global Terror Report
that reports terrorists attacks have tripled in the last year.
Events can have consequences. Bush's invasion of Iraq has created many
many more terrorists, plain and simple. You can't occupy a country and
kill 1000,000 of its inhabitants and unl;esh chaos and civil war and
expect it not to create an anti-occupier mentality. Well maybe YOU
can. But thinking people realize such actions have negative
consequences.
How many attacks in the U.S. since 9/11/2001?
How many killed in the US by terrorists attacks, under Clinton and
Bush '43?

(You're playing a game, so I did too.)
--
"Modern Conservative: Someone who can take time out from bragging
about conservatives controlling the entire government to ask what
ideas the liberals have for fixing the mess Republicans have made."

- Mitchell Holman, news://alt.politics.economics
Bob Kolker
2006-10-01 22:05:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Baxter
What's any of this got to do with consulting?
As far as Iraq goes, the longer we stay there the worse it's going to get.
Probably right. We should nuke Iraq and Iran after withdrawing our people.
Post by Baxter
As to going after terrorists, Clinton has a much better record than Bush.
The hell he did. He treated the 1993 attack on the World Trade Center as
a criminal matter, not an act of war. He missed or failed to get bin
Laden on a dozen occassions. The attack on the U.S.S. Cole happened
under his watch. Clinton did next to nothing to deal with terrorists. He
tossed a few Monica Missles at Bagdhad to keep attention away from the
Monica Affair.


Bob Kolker
r***@comcast.net
2006-10-01 22:56:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Kolker
Post by Baxter
What's any of this got to do with consulting?
As far as Iraq goes, the longer we stay there the worse it's going to get.
Probably right. We should nuke Iraq and Iran after withdrawing our people.
Post by Baxter
As to going after terrorists, Clinton has a much better record than Bush.
The hell he did. He treated the 1993 attack on the World Trade Center as
a criminal matter, not an act of war.
Yep and arrested all the perpetrators and imprisoned them and followed
up on their connections to disrup[t other plots.
Post by Bob Kolker
He missed or failed to get bin
Laden on a dozen occassions.
Sheer nonsense and neocon mythology> When he actually tried to kill
him and take out Al Qaeda with 60 to 70 cruise missiles you and yours
were saying it was "wag the dog".
Post by Bob Kolker
The attack on the U.S.S. Cole happened
under his watch.
And 12 weeks before Bush took office. And Clarke and the Counter
terror experts were urging action in response.. But Rice said she
didn't want to get into a "tit for tat" over that with Al Qaeda.
Post by Bob Kolker
Clinton did next to nothing to deal with terrorists. He
tossed a few Monica Missles at Bagdhad to keep attention away from the
Monica Affair.
Um you could cure that monumental ignorance with a little reading real
quickly.
Start here:
http://www.gpoaccess.gov/911/pdf/sec4.pdf

And then read "The Age of Sacred Terror" and after that "Against All
Enemies". And then you wouldn' t look like such an ignorant lying
tool.

Oh check this out BTW


--
"The State Department officially released its annual terrorism report
just a little more than an hour ago, but unlike last year, there's no
extensive mention of alleged terrorist mastermind Osama bin Laden. A
senior State Department official tells CNN the U.S. government made a
mistake in focusing so much energy on bin Laden and 'personalizing
terrorism.'"

-- CNN, 4/30/2001.
Baxter
2006-10-04 01:14:00 UTC
Permalink
-
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Free software - Baxter Codeworks www.baxcode.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post by Bob Kolker
Post by Baxter
What's any of this got to do with consulting?
As far as Iraq goes, the longer we stay there the worse it's going to get.
Probably right. We should nuke Iraq and Iran after withdrawing our people.
Nuking ANYBODY is decidedly the wrong thing to do.
Post by Bob Kolker
Post by Baxter
As to going after terrorists, Clinton has a much better record than Bush.
The hell he did. He treated the 1993 attack on the World Trade Center as
a criminal matter, not an act of war.
And the people involved are now in jail.
Bob Kolker
2006-10-01 22:15:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Baxter
What's any of this got to do with consulting?
As far as Iraq goes, the longer we stay there the worse it's going to get.
As to going after terrorists, Clinton has a much better record than Bush.
During Clinton's watch

The Khobar Towers bombing
The attack on U.S.S. Cole
The 1993 Attack on U.S.S. Cole
Failure to kill or aprehend bin Laden on at least a dozen occassions
when it was possible and relatively easy to do so.
The Clintonistas permitted the Taliban to host bin Laden and provide a
terrorist training site.

The eight year preparation for the 9/11 attack took place mostly on
Clinton's watch. His adminstration did nothing to investigate funny
things like Moslems taking flying lessons for heavy aircraft but not
learning how to land. How about that? One missed opportunity after
another. Maybe if Billy boy had spent more time on killing bin Laden or
aprehending him instead of staining Monica's dress the outcome would
have been happier.

Really good job, Bill.

Bob Kolker
Bob Kolker
2006-10-02 00:12:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Kolker
During Clinton's watch
The Khobar Towers bombing
The attack on U.S.S. Cole
The 1993 Attack on U.S.S. Cole
Make that the 1993 attack on the WTC

Bob Kolker
r***@comcast.net
2006-10-02 00:24:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Kolker
Post by Bob Kolker
During Clinton's watch
The Khobar Towers bombing
The attack on U.S.S. Cole
The 1993 Attack on U.S.S. Cole
Make that the 1993 attack on the WTC
It's all the same. Factually ignorant rantings.

Have you done your reading yet? Or are you going to hide form the
facts so you can preserve your ignorance?

________________
I am human; nothing in humanity is alien to me.
Terence
Les Cargill
2006-10-02 00:59:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Kolker
Post by Baxter
What's any of this got to do with consulting?
As far as Iraq goes, the longer we stay there the worse it's going to get.
As to going after terrorists, Clinton has a much better record than Bush.
During Clinton's watch
The Khobar Towers bombing
The attack on U.S.S. Cole
The 1993 Attack on U.S.S. Cole
Failure to kill or aprehend bin Laden on at least a dozen occassions
when it was possible and relatively easy to do so.
The Clintonistas permitted the Taliban to host bin Laden and provide a
terrorist training site.
The eight year preparation for the 9/11 attack took place mostly on
Clinton's watch. His adminstration did nothing to investigate funny
things like Moslems taking flying lessons for heavy aircraft but not
learning how to land. How about that? One missed opportunity after
another. Maybe if Billy boy had spent more time on killing bin Laden or
aprehending him instead of staining Monica's dress the outcome would
have been happier.
Really good job, Bill.
Bob Kolker
According to "Journey of the Jihadists", Al Queda was on
its last legs when 9/11 hit. Good job Bill, indeed.

--
Les Cargill
B***@OnTheBoard.com
2006-10-01 21:37:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Baxter
As to going after terrorists, Clinton has a much better record than Bush.
How many attacks in the U.S. occurred during Clinton?
Bob Kolker
2006-10-02 00:08:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by Baxter
As to going after terrorists, Clinton has a much better record than Bush.
How many attacks in the U.S. occurred during Clinton?
1993 attack on the WTC. It failed to topple the buildings but it wounded
over a thousand, and cost hundreds of millions to repair.

Bob Kolker
Simple Simon
2006-10-01 23:29:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Kolker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by Baxter
As to going after terrorists, Clinton has a much better record than Bush.
How many attacks in the U.S. occurred during Clinton?
1993 attack on the WTC.
21 days into his term, but OK. All the perps are in prison for the
rest of their lives.
--
"Modern Conservative: Someone who can take time out from bragging
about conservatives controlling the entire government to ask what
plan the liberals have for fixing the mess Republicans have made."

- Mitchell Holman, news://alt.politics.economics
B***@OnTheBoard.com
2006-10-02 00:46:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Kolker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by Baxter
As to going after terrorists, Clinton has a much better record than Bush.
How many attacks in the U.S. occurred during Clinton?
1993 attack on the WTC. It failed to topple the buildings but it wounded
over a thousand, and cost hundreds of millions to repair.
How many attacks in the U.S. since 9/11/2001?
r***@comcast.net
2006-10-02 01:14:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by Bob Kolker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by Baxter
As to going after terrorists, Clinton has a much better record than Bush.
How many attacks in the U.S. occurred during Clinton?
1993 attack on the WTC. It failed to topple the buildings but it wounded
over a thousand, and cost hundreds of millions to repair.
How many attacks in the U.S. since 9/11/2001?
The whole world is fucked up. We've lost all respect in the world.
Thousands are dead, and you've got this one bogus stat to cling to for
dear life.

All I can say is Wow!

________________
I am human; nothing in humanity is alien to me.
Terence
B***@OnTheBoard.com
2006-10-02 03:29:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@comcast.net
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by Bob Kolker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by Baxter
As to going after terrorists, Clinton has a much better record than Bush.
How many attacks in the U.S. occurred during Clinton?
1993 attack on the WTC. It failed to topple the buildings but it wounded
over a thousand, and cost hundreds of millions to repair.
How many attacks in the U.S. since 9/11/2001?
The whole world is fucked up. We've lost all respect in the world.
Thousands are dead, and you've got this one bogus stat to cling to for
dear life.
All I can say is Wow!
Yeah goober, since I live here in the U.S. - that IS a biggy!!
The Trucker
2006-10-03 00:19:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by r***@comcast.net
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by Bob Kolker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by Baxter
As to going after terrorists, Clinton has a much better record than Bush.
How many attacks in the U.S. occurred during Clinton?
1993 attack on the WTC. It failed to topple the buildings but it wounded
over a thousand, and cost hundreds of millions to repair.
How many attacks in the U.S. since 9/11/2001?
The whole world is fucked up. We've lost all respect in the world.
Thousands are dead, and you've got this one bogus stat to cling to for
dear life.
All I can say is Wow!
Yeah goober, since I live here in the U.S. - that IS a biggy!!
The best answer was the one from the old woman in the UK:
When asked for her reaction to the transit bombings she said,
"You can't let them change who you are". It seems that you
and the Republicans are all in favor of letting them change who
we are purely for the sake of authoritative aggrandizement.
--
"I know no safe depository of the ultimate powers
of society but the people themselves; and
if we think them not enlightened enough to
exercise their control with a wholesome
discretion, the remedy is not to take it from
them, but to inform their discretion by
education." - Thomas Jefferson
http://GreaterVoice.org
B***@OnTheBoard.com
2006-10-03 00:58:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by r***@comcast.net
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by Bob Kolker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by Baxter
As to going after terrorists, Clinton has a much better record than Bush.
How many attacks in the U.S. occurred during Clinton?
1993 attack on the WTC. It failed to topple the buildings but it wounded
over a thousand, and cost hundreds of millions to repair.
How many attacks in the U.S. since 9/11/2001?
The whole world is fucked up. We've lost all respect in the world.
Thousands are dead, and you've got this one bogus stat to cling to for
dear life.
All I can say is Wow!
Yeah goober, since I live here in the U.S. - that IS a biggy!!
When asked for her reaction to the transit bombings she said,
"You can't let them change who you are". It seems that you
and the Republicans are all in favor of letting them change who
we are purely for the sake of authoritative aggrandizement.
Yes, you posted that one before. Some people are in denial.
Simple Simon
2006-10-02 01:55:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by Bob Kolker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by Baxter
As to going after terrorists, Clinton has a much better record than Bush.
How many attacks in the U.S. occurred during Clinton?
1993 attack on the WTC. It failed to topple the buildings but it wounded
over a thousand, and cost hundreds of millions to repair.
How many attacks in the U.S. since 9/11/2001?
How many in US killed under Bush '43, vs. other Presidents?
--
"Modern Conservative: Someone who can take time out from bragging
about conservatives controlling the entire government to ask what
ideas the liberals have for fixing the mess Republicans have made."

- Mitchell Holman, news://alt.politics.economics
Bob Kolker
2006-10-02 03:05:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by Bob Kolker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by Baxter
As to going after terrorists, Clinton has a much better record than Bush.
How many attacks in the U.S. occurred during Clinton?
1993 attack on the WTC. It failed to topple the buildings but it wounded
over a thousand, and cost hundreds of millions to repair.
How many attacks in the U.S. since 9/11/2001?
0.

Perhaps our activities in Afghanistan and Iraq made an impression. Or
maybe not. We shall see.

Bob Kolker
r***@comcast.net
2006-10-02 02:27:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Kolker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by Bob Kolker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by Baxter
As to going after terrorists, Clinton has a much better record than Bush.
How many attacks in the U.S. occurred during Clinton?
1993 attack on the WTC. It failed to topple the buildings but it wounded
over a thousand, and cost hundreds of millions to repair.
How many attacks in the U.S. since 9/11/2001?
0.
Perhaps our activities in Afghanistan and Iraq made an impression. Or
maybe not. We shall see.
The NIE and the Global Patterns of Terrorism Report say they made
enough impression to triple the number of terrorists and attacks.
http://www.sundayherald.com/58253


"Here is the bitterly sarcastic response from one British security
source to news that leaked secret reports, from within both the
Ministry of Defence and the American intelligence establishment, found
that the invasion of Iraq was the number one recruiting sergeant for
jihadi extremists: “No shit, really? What are you going to tell me
next – that smoking gives you cancer?”"



________________
I am human; nothing in humanity is alien to me.
Terence
Simple Simon
2006-10-02 03:22:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@comcast.net
Post by Bob Kolker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by Bob Kolker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by Baxter
As to going after terrorists, Clinton has a much better record than Bush.
How many attacks in the U.S. occurred during Clinton?
1993 attack on the WTC. It failed to topple the buildings but it wounded
over a thousand, and cost hundreds of millions to repair.
How many attacks in the U.S. since 9/11/2001?
0.
Perhaps our activities in Afghanistan and Iraq made an impression. Or
maybe not. We shall see.
The NIE and the Global Patterns of Terrorism Report say they made
enough impression to triple the number of terrorists and attacks.
http://www.sundayherald.com/58253
"Here is the bitterly sarcastic response from one British security
source to news that leaked secret reports, from within both the
Ministry of Defence and the American intelligence establishment, found
that the invasion of Iraq was the number one recruiting sergeant for
jihadi extremists: “No shit, really? What are you going to tell me
next – that smoking gives you cancer?”"
As MSNBC's Chris Matthews said: "If in WWII we got 10 Nazis for
every one we killed, we'd never have won that war."
--
"Modern Conservative: Someone who can take time out from bragging
about conservatives controlling the entire government to ask what
ideas the liberals have for fixing the mess Republicans have made."

- Mitchell Holman, news://alt.politics.economics
B***@OnTheBoard.com
2006-10-02 03:39:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@comcast.net
Post by Bob Kolker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
How many attacks in the U.S. since 9/11/2001?
0.
Perhaps our activities in Afghanistan and Iraq made an impression. Or
maybe not. We shall see.
The NIE and the Global Patterns of Terrorism Report say they made
enough impression to triple the number of terrorists and attacks.
Attacks where grouchy?
r***@comcast.net
2006-10-02 03:49:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by r***@comcast.net
Post by Bob Kolker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
How many attacks in the U.S. since 9/11/2001?
0.
Perhaps our activities in Afghanistan and Iraq made an impression. Or
maybe not. We shall see.
The NIE and the Global Patterns of Terrorism Report say they made
enough impression to triple the number of terrorists and attacks.
Attacks where grouchy?
London for starters. But I guess you don't feel any loyalty to them
though.

________________
I am human; nothing in humanity is alien to me.
Terence
Simple Simon
2006-10-02 03:20:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Kolker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by Bob Kolker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by Baxter
As to going after terrorists, Clinton has a much better record than Bush.
How many attacks in the U.S. occurred during Clinton?
1993 attack on the WTC. It failed to topple the buildings but it wounded
over a thousand, and cost hundreds of millions to repair.
How many attacks in the U.S. since 9/11/2001?
0.
Perhaps our activities in Afghanistan and Iraq made an impression. Or
maybe not. We shall see.
Read up on Islamic military history. They're masters of patience and
innovative exploitation of weakness.
--
"Modern Conservative: Someone who can take time out from bragging
about conservatives controlling the entire government to ask what
ideas the liberals have for fixing the mess Republicans have made."

- Mitchell Holman, news://alt.politics.economics
B***@OnTheBoard.com
2006-10-02 03:38:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Kolker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by Bob Kolker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by Baxter
As to going after terrorists, Clinton has a much better record than Bush.
How many attacks in the U.S. occurred during Clinton?
1993 attack on the WTC. It failed to topple the buildings but it wounded
over a thousand, and cost hundreds of millions to repair.
How many attacks in the U.S. since 9/11/2001?
0.
Perhaps our activities in Afghanistan and Iraq made an impression. Or
maybe not. We shall see.
You are correct Bob. Neo's don't know and neither do the lib-loons. Only
time and history will tell. However, in the meantime, I prefer to support
the country I live in while we're there.
Baxter
2006-10-04 01:12:41 UTC
Permalink
-
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Free software - Baxter Codeworks www.baxcode.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by Baxter
As to going after terrorists, Clinton has a much better record than Bush.
How many attacks in the U.S. occurred during Clinton?
Do you recall the first WTC attack? And that the perpetrators are in jail?
B***@OnTheBoard.com
2006-10-04 01:57:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Baxter
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by Baxter
As to going after terrorists, Clinton has a much better record than
Bush.
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
How many attacks in the U.S. occurred during Clinton?
Do you recall the first WTC attack? And that the perpetrators are in jail?
A couple of islamo-kooks are in jail. Since the whole thing was not
planned by just the "perpetrators", no follow up was done. Ergo,
9/11.

Once they realized KKKlintoon was an easy mark, plan 2 started.

V***@tcq.net
2006-10-01 21:31:41 UTC
Permalink
but again, there is nothing in your ranting that refutes my post.
insults, innuendoes and labeling someone still does not refute the
merits of my post.
you have changed the subject, and have insinuated its about 911, which
it was not.
refute, or shut up.
The Trucker
2006-10-01 22:51:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Okay numb-nuts.....
A statistical analysis by Doug Henwood, editor of the liberal newsletter
Left Business Observer, found that an "uncanny" 78% of the movement
in Bush's ratings could be correlated with changes in gas prices. Based
on trends in crude oil prices, Henwood predicted last Thursday that it
"wouldn't be surprising to see his approval numbers rise into the mid-40s."
In a USA TODAY/Gallup Poll taken Friday through Sunday, Bush's rating
rose to 44%, his highest in a year.
Wait a second....according to fib-erals his approval numbers had to do
with his policies, not gas prices!
For most of us with reasonable intelligence there is a definite correlation
between Bush policies and MOVING AVERAGE gas prices. Only an
idiot would try to say that these two things do not correlate. And just so
you get the point I will say that overall rise in the price of gas has been
BECAUSE of Bush policies and that the latest "blip" is, in fact, due to the
fact that the oil companies are "investing" in the Republicans INDIRECTLY.
They WANT desperately for the Republicans to retain control of the
congress and they are doing what they believe might make that happen.
This is not a "conspiracy" theory. It is a simple observation of business
in our world today.
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Countdown to liberal kook conspiracy outrage (again)...............
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WHEN CONSPIRACY IS A SUBSTITUTE FOR INTELLECTUAL
THOUGHT
As usual, when something of such magnitude as 9/11 occurs, the
Conspiracy kooks have to come out of the woodwork spinning tales of
Government complicity and high level top secret orders. Oh, if only life
were really the X-Files. No, real life is much more complex than that.
I agree.
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
9/11 was a military operation that many military minded folks in secret
marvel at. Not because of the death toll, oh no, it is much deeper than
that. This plan was hatched in 3 countries, in complete secrecy with no
leaks to the New York Times and last but not least, conducted with near
perfect "Time on Target".
Now YOU are being a "conspiracy nut" and giving these people far
more credit than they deserve.
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
The plot for 9/11 was initially conceived in 1994 in Manila Philippines.
Hmmmm, let's see here, who was president in 1994??? Oh yeah, Klintoon.
Gee..... If only he would have had a crystal viewing ball that could
"home in" on the evil doers. As it turns out, Clinton was aware of
Bin Laden in 1993 and trying to find out as much as he could.
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
A lenient government with weak aircraft protocol gave them a place in
which they could take flights out to "case" their target. It also gave them
a country to operate in relative safety seeing how the then Ramos
government had their hands full with the Abu Sayyaf and that a few Arabs
running around Manila wouldn't gather all that much attention. All of that
gave them a laboratory that JFK and NYC could never provide them.
The thing to remember with our enemy is they are patient, waiting for the
perfect time to strike for maximum terror and effect.
What a load of horse manure. These people are no more patient or
cunning than anyone else.
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
As a military tactician,
the 9/11 plot was pure offensive genius. Take one of your enemy's strengths
and turn it into a weakness. American airpower and commercial might
turned into fully fueled missiles took cruelness yet genius that tells me,
we are in a fight like none other in the history of man.
That is because you are looking to excuse the inaction or the
stupidity of your "moron in chief".
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Why can't anything be what it is? Why can't people accept the fact that
radical Islamists with a hatred of the West made good on a promise to
make war with the United States?
There is a very big difference in a terrorist attack (or even a bunch of
terrorist attacks) and a _WAR_. These pukes do not have the necessary
resources to declare war on a pretzel. It takes a nincompoop like George
Bush to turn this criminal behavior into a _WAR_ for his own political
gain.
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
After Al Qaeda attacked the World
Trade Center the first time,
Clinton put the perpetrators in the iron motel like the criminals they are and
he tried to get the entire "family" of criminals. But first you must get a
finding from the "intelligence" community and even then you need the
support of the various congressional committees before you can _act_
in any decisive way. It was not then and is not now in the best interest
of the United States to call this a _war_. All that has done is to give an
air of legitimacy and stature to a crime family no different than the
Cosa Nostra.
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
then blew up a couple of embassies, the
Khobar Towers, The USS Cole and allegedly funded the Aidid government
in Somalia, why do we think it is anyone else?
Most of us do not think that it was anyone other than Moslem fundamentalists
that did these things whether Al Qaeda or Hezbollah or whatever. It was
sorta like Pat Roberson putting out a hit on Hugo Chavez.
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
And again, who was president then? Hmmmm, oh yeah, Klintoon again.
Billie Im-Too-Busy-Fucking-My-Staff Clinton.
You distortion artists never give up, do you? Whatever it takes to shift
the blame from yourselves to others is exactly what you will do. Right
next to the word "conspiracy" in any good dictionary should be a picture
of an elephant wearing a flag and a crucifix.
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
As for World Trade Centers 1,2 and 7. Their destruction was fully explained
by the engineer and architects who designed them and have no reason to
support a conspiracy by the "evil, oil beholden" Bush Administration or
the "Zionist" Mossad or whatever the Conspiracy kook community is calling
them nowadays.
Most of us see a "conspiracy" of feigned or real "ignorance" on the
part of Cheney and Bush. The events that unfolded after the planes
hit their targets are, to most of us, not part of the discussion.
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
WTC's 1 and 2 went down because too many supports were compromised
to bear the load for the damaged portions and WTC 7 went because in the
confusion of trying to rescue folks trapped in the collapsed towers, I don't
believe anyone realized WTC 7 was involved until it was too late.
(snore)
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Another thing to consider, the State Department and the White House both
leak like a sieve. Nothing happens in those offices without it getting to
someone at the Washington Post or the New York Times. If the "evil" Bush
Administration were even partially responsible for planning 9/11 to get us
into a war with Iraq, it is inconceivable that it would be a complete secret
and no one in the press would pick it up. Even if the press did pick it up,
do you think they would remain silent especially since it was so fresh after
Florida 2000? The press would run like the wind with the story that Bush
was going to kill 3,000 Americans to get us into a war to avenge the guy
who threatened to kill his Daddy. Come on, I know even you can't believe
that story. Even Scully and Mulder would be giggling their ass off on that
one.
I certainly am. But I am very comfortable with my position that the
Busies new more than they say they did and that they prayed every
night for ANYTHING that would allow then to increase their power
in this country.

<<< deletia of more silliness>>>
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
I know it is human nature to try and put answers to things but sometimes
the answers are there, you just don't want to face them. 9/11 was a tragedy,
a tragedy I am not sure that could have been entirely averted with the
political climate prior to 9/11. Let's face it, with the towers still standing how
many folks are going to agree with the airline security we now have to deal
with?
Many of us don't agree with all the hysteria and stomping of civil
liberties in any case. If we needed to seal off the cockpits of the
planes or to make it possible to take them over from the ground
then so be it. No need for all the bogyman stuff.
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
That's right, not too many. We need to remain vigilant, on guard and always
refuse capitulation in the face of terror.
We needed to thumb our noses at these criminals. The best statement I have
heard in the last 5 years came form an elderly person in the UK. When
asked what should be done in the wake of the London transit bombings
she said "You can't let them change who you are". When we give up our
liberty in the face of threats we are giving the terrorists a win. Vigilance,
yes.
Invasion of individual rights, no. Torture, no. Suspension of Habeas Corpus,
no. Unwarranted wiretapping, no.
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
You lib-loons are simply in denial. "Good gosh! If dems. were in control,
this would have never happened? Really? Then re-read the above again.
Can't comprehend it? Of course you can't, you're a lib-loon.
It is you who are in denial: You don't defeat terrorism by making war.
That is nothing short of stupidity on steroids. You defeat terrorism by
removing the support of the people for the terrorists. It takes time
and it takes REAL intelligence. And I'm not talking about the gathering
of data. I am talking about having some notion of how to win the hearts
and minds of the real people. It is done with even handed fairness and
not with threats and bombs.
--
"I know no safe depository of the ultimate powers
of society but the people themselves; and
if we think them not enlightened enough to
exercise their control with a wholesome
discretion, the remedy is not to take it from
them, but to inform their discretion by
education." - Thomas Jefferson
http://GreaterVoice.org
B***@OnTheBoard.com
2006-10-02 00:44:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
A statistical analysis by Doug Henwood, editor of the liberal newsletter
Left Business Observer, found that an "uncanny" 78% of the movement
in Bush's ratings could be correlated with changes in gas prices. Based
on trends in crude oil prices, Henwood predicted last Thursday that it
"wouldn't be surprising to see his approval numbers rise into the mid-40s."
In a USA TODAY/Gallup Poll taken Friday through Sunday, Bush's rating
rose to 44%, his highest in a year.
Wait a second....according to fib-erals his approval numbers had to do
with his policies, not gas prices!
For most of us with reasonable intelligence there is a definite correlation
between Bush policies and MOVING AVERAGE gas prices. Only an
idiot would try to say that these two things do not correlate. And just so
you get the point I will say that overall rise in the price of gas has been
BECAUSE of Bush policies and that the latest "blip" is, in fact, due to the
fact that the oil companies are "investing" in the Republicans INDIRECTLY.
They WANT desperately for the Republicans to retain control of the
congress and they are doing what they believe might make that happen.
This is not a "conspiracy" theory. It is a simple observation of business
in our world today.
Sure. Total crap.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13599899/
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Countdown to liberal kook conspiracy outrage (again)...............
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WHEN CONSPIRACY IS A SUBSTITUTE FOR INTELLECTUAL
THOUGHT
As usual, when something of such magnitude as 9/11 occurs, the
Conspiracy kooks have to come out of the woodwork spinning tales of
Government complicity and high level top secret orders. Oh, if only life
were really the X-Files. No, real life is much more complex than that.
I agree.
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
9/11 was a military operation that many military minded folks in secret
marvel at. Not because of the death toll, oh no, it is much deeper than
that. This plan was hatched in 3 countries, in complete secrecy with no
leaks to the New York Times and last but not least, conducted with near
perfect "Time on Target".
Now YOU are being a "conspiracy nut" and giving these people far
more credit than they deserve.
It was sarcasm.
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
The plot for 9/11 was initially conceived in 1994 in Manila Philippines.
Hmmmm, let's see here, who was president in 1994??? Oh yeah, Klintoon.
Gee..... If only he would have had a crystal viewing ball that could
"home in" on the evil doers. As it turns out, Clinton was aware of
Bin Laden in 1993 and trying to find out as much as he could.
Lib-loons expect the current admin. to have a crystal ball. I'm just applying
the same standards to Klintoon.
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
A lenient government with weak aircraft protocol gave them a place in
which they could take flights out to "case" their target. It also gave them
a country to operate in relative safety seeing how the then Ramos
government had their hands full with the Abu Sayyaf and that a few Arabs
running around Manila wouldn't gather all that much attention. All of that
gave them a laboratory that JFK and NYC could never provide them.
The thing to remember with our enemy is they are patient, waiting for the
perfect time to strike for maximum terror and effect.
What a load of horse manure. These people are no more patient or
cunning than anyone else.
Really?

Terrorists adapt their methods of operation to the environment where they operate.
For example, those terrorists responsible for the attack on the U.S.S. Cole off
Yemen used a small boat typical to that area, filled it with explosives,
approached the Cole without drawing attention, and then detonated the explosives.

This clearly demonstrates their willingness and capability to attack U.S. targets
worldwide. In preparing for the attacks on the World Trade Center and the
Pentagon, terrorists were able to establish legal residence in the United States
where they were afforded an unimpeded opportunity to conduct training, perform
reconnaissance (research airport procedures), and establish critical support.

In the end, they hijacked commercial aircrafts without detection or interdiction.
As an adaptive foe, terrorists learn from their own successes and failures. We
can also conclude that terrorist targeting and tactics will continue to evolve.

They have shown patience and a willingness to wait until the time and target
are optimum to conduct an attack. Just like the chameleon analogy, Army
intelligence must adapt its methods of identifying trends, capabilities, and
intentions of this asymmetric threat to achieve predictive rather than
historical effects.
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
As a military tactician,
the 9/11 plot was pure offensive genius. Take one of your enemy's strengths
and turn it into a weakness. American airpower and commercial might
turned into fully fueled missiles took cruelness yet genius that tells me,
we are in a fight like none other in the history of man.
That is because you are looking to excuse the inaction or the
stupidity of your "moron in chief".
Like exusing Klintoon for doing nothing.
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Why can't anything be what it is? Why can't people accept the fact that
radical Islamists with a hatred of the West made good on a promise to
make war with the United States?
There is a very big difference in a terrorist attack (or even a bunch of
terrorist attacks) and a _WAR_. These pukes do not have the necessary
resources to declare war on a pretzel. It takes a nincompoop like George
Bush to turn this criminal behavior into a _WAR_ for his own political
gain.
So we should just call the cops on them? Gimme a break. Are you
nuts?
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
After Al Qaeda attacked the World
Trade Center the first time,
Clinton put the perpetrators in the iron motel like the criminals they are and
he tried to get the entire "family" of criminals. But first you must get a
finding from the "intelligence" community and even then you need the
support of the various congressional committees before you can _act_
in any decisive way. It was not then and is not now in the best interest
of the United States to call this a _war_. All that has done is to give an
air of legitimacy and stature to a crime family no different than the
Cosa Nostra.
I hope you are not serious.
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
then blew up a couple of embassies, the
Khobar Towers, The USS Cole and allegedly funded the Aidid government
in Somalia, why do we think it is anyone else?
Most of us do not think that it was anyone other than Moslem fundamentalists
that did these things whether Al Qaeda or Hezbollah or whatever. It was
sorta like Pat Roberson putting out a hit on Hugo Chavez.
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
And again, who was president then? Hmmmm, oh yeah, Klintoon again.
Billie Im-Too-Busy-Fucking-My-Staff Clinton.
You distortion artists never give up, do you? Whatever it takes to shift
the blame from yourselves to others is exactly what you will do. Right
next to the word "conspiracy" in any good dictionary should be a picture
of an elephant wearing a flag and a crucifix.
Fact.
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
As for World Trade Centers 1,2 and 7. Their destruction was fully explained
by the engineer and architects who designed them and have no reason to
support a conspiracy by the "evil, oil beholden" Bush Administration or
the "Zionist" Mossad or whatever the Conspiracy kook community is calling
them nowadays.
Most of us see a "conspiracy" of feigned or real "ignorance" on the
part of Cheney and Bush. The events that unfolded after the planes
hit their targets are, to most of us, not part of the discussion.
Of course you do.
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
WTC's 1 and 2 went down because too many supports were compromised
to bear the load for the damaged portions and WTC 7 went because in the
confusion of trying to rescue folks trapped in the collapsed towers, I don't
believe anyone realized WTC 7 was involved until it was too late.
(snore)
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Another thing to consider, the State Department and the White House both
leak like a sieve. Nothing happens in those offices without it getting to
someone at the Washington Post or the New York Times. If the "evil" Bush
Administration were even partially responsible for planning 9/11 to get us
into a war with Iraq, it is inconceivable that it would be a complete secret
and no one in the press would pick it up. Even if the press did pick it up,
do you think they would remain silent especially since it was so fresh after
Florida 2000? The press would run like the wind with the story that Bush
was going to kill 3,000 Americans to get us into a war to avenge the guy
who threatened to kill his Daddy. Come on, I know even you can't believe
that story. Even Scully and Mulder would be giggling their ass off on that
one.
I certainly am. But I am very comfortable with my position that the
Busies new more than they say they did and that they prayed every
night for ANYTHING that would allow then to increase their power
in this country.
Power for who? Term is up in 2008. What a silly comment from, I assume,
an adult.
Post by The Trucker
<<< deletia of more silliness>>>
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
I know it is human nature to try and put answers to things but sometimes
the answers are there, you just don't want to face them. 9/11 was a tragedy,
a tragedy I am not sure that could have been entirely averted with the
political climate prior to 9/11. Let's face it, with the towers still standing how
many folks are going to agree with the airline security we now have to deal
with?
Many of us don't agree with all the hysteria and stomping of civil
liberties in any case. If we needed to seal off the cockpits of the
planes or to make it possible to take them over from the ground
then so be it. No need for all the bogyman stuff.
I know. It's all so silly isn't it? Do you fly? :-b
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
That's right, not too many. We need to remain vigilant, on guard and always
refuse capitulation in the face of terror.
We needed to thumb our noses at these criminals. The best statement I have
heard in the last 5 years came form an elderly person in the UK. When
asked what should be done in the wake of the London transit bombings
she said "You can't let them change who you are". When we give up our
liberty in the face of threats we are giving the terrorists a win. Vigilance,
yes.
Invasion of individual rights, no. Torture, no. Suspension of Habeas Corpus,
no. Unwarranted wiretapping, no.
and YOU define "unwarranted", right?
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
You lib-loons are simply in denial. "Good gosh! If dems. were in control,
this would have never happened? Really? Then re-read the above again.
Can't comprehend it? Of course you can't, you're a lib-loon.
It is you who are in denial: You don't defeat terrorism by making war.
That is nothing short of stupidity on steroids. You defeat terrorism by
removing the support of the people for the terrorists. It takes time
and it takes REAL intelligence. And I'm not talking about the gathering
of data. I am talking about having some notion of how to win the hearts
and minds of the real people. It is done with even handed fairness and
not with threats and bombs.
Ahhh....gosh of golly. Follow your yellow-brick road.
The Trucker
2006-10-02 02:15:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
A statistical analysis by Doug Henwood, editor of the liberal newsletter
Left Business Observer, found that an "uncanny" 78% of the movement
in Bush's ratings could be correlated with changes in gas prices. Based
on trends in crude oil prices, Henwood predicted last Thursday that it
"wouldn't be surprising to see his approval numbers rise into the mid-40s."
In a USA TODAY/Gallup Poll taken Friday through Sunday, Bush's rating
rose to 44%, his highest in a year.
Wait a second....according to fib-erals his approval numbers had to do
with his policies, not gas prices!
For most of us with reasonable intelligence there is a definite correlation
between Bush policies and MOVING AVERAGE gas prices. Only an
idiot would try to say that these two things do not correlate. And just so
you get the point I will say that overall rise in the price of gas has been
BECAUSE of Bush policies and that the latest "blip" is, in fact, due to the
fact that the oil companies are "investing" in the Republicans INDIRECTLY.
They WANT desperately for the Republicans to retain control of the
congress and they are doing what they believe might make that happen.
This is not a "conspiracy" theory. It is a simple observation of business
in our world today.
Sure. Total crap.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13599899/
While there is typically a fall in oil prices in Sept. after the summer, the
fall in prices this year is much more pronounced than in previous years.
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Countdown to liberal kook conspiracy outrage (again)...............
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WHEN CONSPIRACY IS A SUBSTITUTE FOR INTELLECTUAL
THOUGHT
As usual, when something of such magnitude as 9/11 occurs, the
Conspiracy kooks have to come out of the woodwork spinning tales of
Government complicity and high level top secret orders. Oh, if only life
were really the X-Files. No, real life is much more complex than that.
I agree.
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
9/11 was a military operation that many military minded folks in secret
marvel at. Not because of the death toll, oh no, it is much deeper than
that. This plan was hatched in 3 countries, in complete secrecy with no
leaks to the New York Times and last but not least, conducted with near
perfect "Time on Target".
Now YOU are being a "conspiracy nut" and giving these people far
more credit than they deserve.
It was sarcasm.
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
The plot for 9/11 was initially conceived in 1994 in Manila Philippines.
Hmmmm, let's see here, who was president in 1994??? Oh yeah, Klintoon.
Gee..... If only he would have had a crystal viewing ball that could
"home in" on the evil doers. As it turns out, Clinton was aware of
Bin Laden in 1993 and trying to find out as much as he could.
Lib-loons expect the current admin. to have a crystal ball. I'm just applying
the same standards to Klintoon.
Sorry. It won't wash. Bin Laden was not a "Johny Come Lately" for
Bush. A lot of very good intelligence had been collected and it was
given to the Bush administration. It was finally "found" by the intel
folks that Ben Laden was the responsible party for the USS Cole
and that informatio0n was also passed as it should have been.
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
A lenient government with weak aircraft protocol gave them a place in
which they could take flights out to "case" their target. It also gave them
a country to operate in relative safety seeing how the then Ramos
government had their hands full with the Abu Sayyaf and that a few Arabs
running around Manila wouldn't gather all that much attention. All of that
gave them a laboratory that JFK and NYC could never provide them.
The thing to remember with our enemy is they are patient, waiting for the
perfect time to strike for maximum terror and effect.
What a load of horse manure. These people are no more patient or
cunning than anyone else.
Really?
Terrorists adapt their methods of operation to the environment where they operate.
For example, those terrorists responsible for the attack on the U.S.S. Cole off
Yemen used a small boat typical to that area, filled it with explosives,
approached the Cole without drawing attention, and then detonated the explosives.
And you believe thst this requires some sort of above average intellect?
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
This clearly demonstrates their willingness and capability to attack U.S. targets
worldwide. In preparing for the attacks on the World Trade Center and the
Pentagon, terrorists were able to establish legal residence in the United States
where they were afforded an unimpeded opportunity to conduct training, perform
reconnaissance (research airport procedures), and establish critical support.
True story.
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
In the end, they hijacked commercial aircrafts without detection or interdiction.
As an adaptive foe, terrorists learn from their own successes and failures.
So do lab rats.
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
We
can also conclude that terrorist targeting and tactics will continue to evolve.
NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! Not Evolution!!!!
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
They have shown patience and a willingness to wait until the time and target
are optimum to conduct an attack. Just like the chameleon analogy, Army
intelligence must adapt its methods of identifying trends, capabilities, and
intentions of this asymmetric threat to achieve predictive rather than
historical effects.
(snore)
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
As a military tactician,
the 9/11 plot was pure offensive genius. Take one of your enemy's strengths
and turn it into a weakness. American airpower and commercial might
turned into fully fueled missiles took cruelness yet genius that tells me,
we are in a fight like none other in the history of man.
That is because you are looking to excuse the inaction or the
stupidity of your "moron in chief".
Like exusing Klintoon for doing nothing.
Lie.
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Why can't anything be what it is? Why can't people accept the fact that
radical Islamists with a hatred of the West made good on a promise to
make war with the United States?
There is a very big difference in a terrorist attack (or even a bunch of
terrorist attacks) and a _WAR_. These pukes do not have the necessary
resources to declare war on a pretzel. It takes a nincompoop like George
Bush to turn this criminal behavior into a _WAR_ for his own political
gain.
So we should just call the cops on them? Gimme a break. Are you
nuts?
No. You are.
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
After Al Qaeda attacked the World
Trade Center the first time,
Clinton put the perpetrators in the iron motel like the criminals they are and
he tried to get the entire "family" of criminals. But first you must get a
finding from the "intelligence" community and even then you need the
support of the various congressional committees before you can _act_
in any decisive way. It was not then and is not now in the best interest
of the United States to call this a _war_. All that has done is to give an
air of legitimacy and stature to a crime family no different than the
Cosa Nostra.
I hope you are not serious.
I am quite serious. I did not see the Brits declaring war on Ireland
and we certainly were not doing ourselves any favors in going to war
in Iraq.
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
then blew up a couple of embassies, the
Khobar Towers, The USS Cole and allegedly funded the Aidid government
in Somalia, why do we think it is anyone else?
Most of us do not think that it was anyone other than Moslem fundamentalists
that did these things whether Al Qaeda or Hezbollah or whatever. It was
sorta like Pat Roberson putting out a hit on Hugo Chavez.
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
And again, who was president then? Hmmmm, oh yeah, Klintoon again.
Billie Im-Too-Busy-Fucking-My-Staff Clinton.
You distortion artists never give up, do you? Whatever it takes to shift
the blame from yourselves to others is exactly what you will do. Right
next to the word "conspiracy" in any good dictionary should be a picture
of an elephant wearing a flag and a crucifix.
Fact.
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
As for World Trade Centers 1,2 and 7. Their destruction was fully explained
by the engineer and architects who designed them and have no reason to
support a conspiracy by the "evil, oil beholden" Bush Administration or
the "Zionist" Mossad or whatever the Conspiracy kook community is calling
them nowadays.
Most of us see a "conspiracy" of feigned or real "ignorance" on the
part of Cheney and Bush. The events that unfolded after the planes
hit their targets are, to most of us, not part of the discussion.
Of course you do.
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
WTC's 1 and 2 went down because too many supports were compromised
to bear the load for the damaged portions and WTC 7 went because in the
confusion of trying to rescue folks trapped in the collapsed towers, I don't
believe anyone realized WTC 7 was involved until it was too late.
(snore)
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Another thing to consider, the State Department and the White House both
leak like a sieve. Nothing happens in those offices without it getting to
someone at the Washington Post or the New York Times. If the "evil" Bush
Administration were even partially responsible for planning 9/11 to get us
into a war with Iraq, it is inconceivable that it would be a complete secret
and no one in the press would pick it up. Even if the press did pick it up,
do you think they would remain silent especially since it was so fresh after
Florida 2000? The press would run like the wind with the story that Bush
was going to kill 3,000 Americans to get us into a war to avenge the guy
who threatened to kill his Daddy. Come on, I know even you can't believe
that story. Even Scully and Mulder would be giggling their ass off on that
one.
I certainly am. But I am very comfortable with my position that the
Busies new more than they say they did and that they prayed every
night for ANYTHING that would allow then to increase their power
in this country.
Power for who? Term is up in 2008. What a silly comment from, I assume,
an adult.
Power for the Republican Party and the Executive branch of government.
And I, for one, hope his term is up next year.
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by The Trucker
<<< deletia of more silliness>>>
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
I know it is human nature to try and put answers to things but sometimes
the answers are there, you just don't want to face them. 9/11 was a tragedy,
a tragedy I am not sure that could have been entirely averted with the
political climate prior to 9/11. Let's face it, with the towers still
standing
how
many folks are going to agree with the airline security we now have to deal
with?
Many of us don't agree with all the hysteria and stomping of civil
liberties in any case. If we needed to seal off the cockpits of the
planes or to make it possible to take them over from the ground
then so be it. No need for all the bogyman stuff.
I know. It's all so silly isn't it? Do you fly? :-b
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
That's right, not too many. We need to remain vigilant, on guard and always
refuse capitulation in the face of terror.
We needed to thumb our noses at these criminals. The best statement I have
heard in the last 5 years came form an elderly person in the UK. When
asked what should be done in the wake of the London transit bombings
she said "You can't let them change who you are". When we give up our
liberty in the face of threats we are giving the terrorists a win.
Vigilance,
yes.
Invasion of individual rights, no. Torture, no. Suspension of Habeas Corpus,
no. Unwarranted wiretapping, no.
and YOU define "unwarranted", right?
That would be "Warrantless".
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
You lib-loons are simply in denial. "Good gosh! If dems. were in control,
this would have never happened? Really? Then re-read the above again.
Can't comprehend it? Of course you can't, you're a lib-loon.
It is you who are in denial: You don't defeat terrorism by making war.
That is nothing short of stupidity on steroids. You defeat terrorism by
removing the support of the people for the terrorists. It takes time
and it takes REAL intelligence. And I'm not talking about the gathering
of data. I am talking about having some notion of how to win the hearts
and minds of the real people. It is done with even handed fairness and
not with threats and bombs.
Ahhh....gosh of golly. Follow your yellow-brick road.
Much more imtelligent than yours.
--
"I know no safe depository of the ultimate powers
of society but the people themselves; and
if we think them not enlightened enough to
exercise their control with a wholesome
discretion, the remedy is not to take it from
them, but to inform their discretion by
education." - Thomas Jefferson
http://GreaterVoice.org
B***@OnTheBoard.com
2006-10-02 03:28:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
A statistical analysis by Doug Henwood, editor of the liberal newsletter
Left Business Observer, found that an "uncanny" 78% of the movement
in Bush's ratings could be correlated with changes in gas prices. Based
on trends in crude oil prices, Henwood predicted last Thursday that it
"wouldn't be surprising to see his approval numbers rise into the mid-40s."
In a USA TODAY/Gallup Poll taken Friday through Sunday, Bush's rating
rose to 44%, his highest in a year.
Wait a second....according to fib-erals his approval numbers had to do
with his policies, not gas prices!
For most of us with reasonable intelligence there is a definite correlation
between Bush policies and MOVING AVERAGE gas prices. Only an
idiot would try to say that these two things do not correlate. And just so
you get the point I will say that overall rise in the price of gas has been
BECAUSE of Bush policies and that the latest "blip" is, in fact, due to the
fact that the oil companies are "investing" in the Republicans INDIRECTLY.
They WANT desperately for the Republicans to retain control of the
congress and they are doing what they believe might make that happen.
This is not a "conspiracy" theory. It is a simple observation of business
in our world today.
Sure. Total crap.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13599899/
While there is typically a fall in oil prices in Sept. after the summer, the
fall in prices this year is much more pronounced than in previous years.
Nice try.
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Countdown to liberal kook conspiracy outrage (again)...............
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WHEN CONSPIRACY IS A SUBSTITUTE FOR INTELLECTUAL
THOUGHT
As usual, when something of such magnitude as 9/11 occurs, the
Conspiracy kooks have to come out of the woodwork spinning tales of
Government complicity and high level top secret orders. Oh, if only life
were really the X-Files. No, real life is much more complex than that.
I agree.
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
9/11 was a military operation that many military minded folks in secret
marvel at. Not because of the death toll, oh no, it is much deeper than
that. This plan was hatched in 3 countries, in complete secrecy with no
leaks to the New York Times and last but not least, conducted with near
perfect "Time on Target".
Now YOU are being a "conspiracy nut" and giving these people far
more credit than they deserve.
It was sarcasm.
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
The plot for 9/11 was initially conceived in 1994 in Manila Philippines.
Hmmmm, let's see here, who was president in 1994??? Oh yeah, Klintoon.
Gee..... If only he would have had a crystal viewing ball that could
"home in" on the evil doers. As it turns out, Clinton was aware of
Bin Laden in 1993 and trying to find out as much as he could.
Lib-loons expect the current admin. to have a crystal ball. I'm just applying
the same standards to Klintoon.
Sorry. It won't wash. Bin Laden was not a "Johny Come Lately" for
Bush. A lot of very good intelligence had been collected and it was
given to the Bush administration. It was finally "found" by the intel
folks that Ben Laden was the responsible party for the USS Cole
and that informatio0n was also passed as it should have been.
Well that was mighty nice of Klintoon to "collect" and "give". How about
collect and do? "Here Mr. New President, we collected all this stuff so
you can deal with this shit. That way, we look cool in everyone's eyes".
LOL.
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
A lenient government with weak aircraft protocol gave them a place in
which they could take flights out to "case" their target. It also gave them
a country to operate in relative safety seeing how the then Ramos
government had their hands full with the Abu Sayyaf and that a few Arabs
running around Manila wouldn't gather all that much attention. All of that
gave them a laboratory that JFK and NYC could never provide them.
The thing to remember with our enemy is they are patient, waiting for the
perfect time to strike for maximum terror and effect.
What a load of horse manure. These people are no more patient or
cunning than anyone else.
Really?
Terrorists adapt their methods of operation to the environment where they operate.
For example, those terrorists responsible for the attack on the U.S.S. Cole off
Yemen used a small boat typical to that area, filled it with explosives,
approached the Cole without drawing attention, and then detonated the explosives.
And you believe thst this requires some sort of above average intellect?
Didn't say that. Just says "adapt".
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
This clearly demonstrates their willingness and capability to attack U.S. targets
worldwide. In preparing for the attacks on the World Trade Center and the
Pentagon, terrorists were able to establish legal residence in the United States
where they were afforded an unimpeded opportunity to conduct training, perform
reconnaissance (research airport procedures), and establish critical support.
True story.
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
In the end, they hijacked commercial aircrafts without detection or interdiction.
As an adaptive foe, terrorists learn from their own successes and failures.
So do lab rats.
and so do you.
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
We
can also conclude that terrorist targeting and tactics will continue to evolve.
NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! Not Evolution!!!!
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
They have shown patience and a willingness to wait until the time and target
are optimum to conduct an attack. Just like the chameleon analogy, Army
intelligence must adapt its methods of identifying trends, capabilities, and
intentions of this asymmetric threat to achieve predictive rather than
historical effects.
(snore)
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
As a military tactician,
the 9/11 plot was pure offensive genius. Take one of your enemy's strengths
and turn it into a weakness. American airpower and commercial might
turned into fully fueled missiles took cruelness yet genius that tells me,
we are in a fight like none other in the history of man.
That is because you are looking to excuse the inaction or the
stupidity of your "moron in chief".
Like exusing Klintoon for doing nothing.
Lie.
Fact.
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Why can't anything be what it is? Why can't people accept the fact that
radical Islamists with a hatred of the West made good on a promise to
make war with the United States?
There is a very big difference in a terrorist attack (or even a bunch of
terrorist attacks) and a _WAR_. These pukes do not have the necessary
resources to declare war on a pretzel. It takes a nincompoop like George
Bush to turn this criminal behavior into a _WAR_ for his own political
gain.
So we should just call the cops on them? Gimme a break. Are you
nuts?
No. You are.
So it's the word "war" that bothers you? You'd feel more warm fuzzies if
we called it the "Tiff with Terror"? That make you feel better?
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
After Al Qaeda attacked the World
Trade Center the first time,
Clinton put the perpetrators in the iron motel like the criminals they are and
he tried to get the entire "family" of criminals. But first you must get a
finding from the "intelligence" community and even then you need the
support of the various congressional committees before you can _act_
in any decisive way. It was not then and is not now in the best interest
of the United States to call this a _war_. All that has done is to give an
air of legitimacy and stature to a crime family no different than the
Cosa Nostra.
I hope you are not serious.
I am quite serious. I did not see the Brits declaring war on Ireland
and we certainly were not doing ourselves any favors in going to war
in Iraq.
Skirmish? Brawl? Upset? What the hell........
That's knit-picking shit.
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
then blew up a couple of embassies, the
Khobar Towers, The USS Cole and allegedly funded the Aidid government
in Somalia, why do we think it is anyone else?
Most of us do not think that it was anyone other than Moslem fundamentalists
that did these things whether Al Qaeda or Hezbollah or whatever. It was
sorta like Pat Roberson putting out a hit on Hugo Chavez.
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
And again, who was president then? Hmmmm, oh yeah, Klintoon again.
Billie Im-Too-Busy-Fucking-My-Staff Clinton.
You distortion artists never give up, do you? Whatever it takes to shift
the blame from yourselves to others is exactly what you will do. Right
next to the word "conspiracy" in any good dictionary should be a picture
of an elephant wearing a flag and a crucifix.
Fact.
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
As for World Trade Centers 1,2 and 7. Their destruction was fully explained
by the engineer and architects who designed them and have no reason to
support a conspiracy by the "evil, oil beholden" Bush Administration or
the "Zionist" Mossad or whatever the Conspiracy kook community is calling
them nowadays.
Most of us see a "conspiracy" of feigned or real "ignorance" on the
part of Cheney and Bush. The events that unfolded after the planes
hit their targets are, to most of us, not part of the discussion.
Of course you do.
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
WTC's 1 and 2 went down because too many supports were compromised
to bear the load for the damaged portions and WTC 7 went because in the
confusion of trying to rescue folks trapped in the collapsed towers, I don't
believe anyone realized WTC 7 was involved until it was too late.
(snore)
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Another thing to consider, the State Department and the White House both
leak like a sieve. Nothing happens in those offices without it getting to
someone at the Washington Post or the New York Times. If the "evil" Bush
Administration were even partially responsible for planning 9/11 to get us
into a war with Iraq, it is inconceivable that it would be a complete secret
and no one in the press would pick it up. Even if the press did pick it up,
do you think they would remain silent especially since it was so fresh after
Florida 2000? The press would run like the wind with the story that Bush
was going to kill 3,000 Americans to get us into a war to avenge the guy
who threatened to kill his Daddy. Come on, I know even you can't believe
that story. Even Scully and Mulder would be giggling their ass off on that
one.
I certainly am. But I am very comfortable with my position that the
Busies new more than they say they did and that they prayed every
night for ANYTHING that would allow then to increase their power
in this country.
Power for who? Term is up in 2008. What a silly comment from, I assume,
an adult.
Power for the Republican Party and the Executive branch of government.
And I, for one, hope his term is up next year.
Umm, his term is up.............by default. I realize that leftists have that need for
power. It's kinda like a pot-kettle syndrome here.
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by The Trucker
<<< deletia of more silliness>>>
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
I know it is human nature to try and put answers to things but sometimes
the answers are there, you just don't want to face them. 9/11 was a tragedy,
a tragedy I am not sure that could have been entirely averted with the
political climate prior to 9/11. Let's face it, with the towers still
standing
how
many folks are going to agree with the airline security we now have to deal
with?
Many of us don't agree with all the hysteria and stomping of civil
liberties in any case. If we needed to seal off the cockpits of the
planes or to make it possible to take them over from the ground
then so be it. No need for all the bogyman stuff.
I know. It's all so silly isn't it? Do you fly? :-b
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
That's right, not too many. We need to remain vigilant, on guard and always
refuse capitulation in the face of terror.
We needed to thumb our noses at these criminals. The best statement I have
heard in the last 5 years came form an elderly person in the UK. When
asked what should be done in the wake of the London transit bombings
she said "You can't let them change who you are". When we give up our
liberty in the face of threats we are giving the terrorists a win.
Vigilance,
yes.
Invasion of individual rights, no. Torture, no. Suspension of Habeas Corpus,
no. Unwarranted wiretapping, no.
and YOU define "unwarranted", right?
That would be "Warrantless".
warrantless = unwarranted
Funny. I just posted a poll taken my MSNBC that states otherwise.
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
You lib-loons are simply in denial. "Good gosh! If dems. were in control,
this would have never happened? Really? Then re-read the above again.
Can't comprehend it? Of course you can't, you're a lib-loon.
It is you who are in denial: You don't defeat terrorism by making war.
That is nothing short of stupidity on steroids. You defeat terrorism by
removing the support of the people for the terrorists. It takes time
and it takes REAL intelligence. And I'm not talking about the gathering
of data. I am talking about having some notion of how to win the hearts
and minds of the real people. It is done with even handed fairness and
not with threats and bombs.
Ahhh....gosh of golly. Follow your yellow-brick road.
Much more imtelligent than yours.
Of course you are more "imtelligent".
lol
r***@comcast.net
2006-10-02 03:46:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by The Trucker
Sorry. It won't wash. Bin Laden was not a "Johny Come Lately" for
Bush. A lot of very good intelligence had been collected and it was
given to the Bush administration. It was finally "found" by the intel
folks that Ben Laden was the responsible party for the USS Cole
and that informatio0n was also passed as it should have been.
Well that was mighty nice of Klintoon to "collect" and "give". How about
collect and do? "Here Mr. New President, we collected all this stuff so
you can deal with this shit. That way, we look cool in everyone's eyes".
LOL.
It was 12 weeks from the Cole Bombing to Bush's inaugaration. In that
time they investigated and concluded it was Bin Laden. And bush's
response?

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/04/08/clarke.rice/index.html
CLARKE: I suggested, beginning in January of 2001, that ... there was
an open issue which should be decided about whether or not the Bush
administration should retaliate for the Cole attack [which occurred in
October 2000].

Unfortunately, there was no interest, no acceptance of that
proposition. And I was told on a couple of occasions, "Well, you know,
that happened on the Clinton administration's watch."

I didn't think it made any difference. I thought the Bush
administration, now that it had the CIA saying it was al Qaeda, should
have responded.

RICE: I do not believe to this day that it would have been a good
thing to respond to the Cole, given the kinds of options that we were
going to have. ... We really thought that the Cole incident was
passed, that you didn't want to respond tit-for-tat. ...

________________
I am human; nothing in humanity is alien to me.
Terence
The Trucker
2006-10-03 00:40:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
A statistical analysis by Doug Henwood, editor of the liberal newsletter
Left Business Observer, found that an "uncanny" 78% of the movement
in Bush's ratings could be correlated with changes in gas prices. Based
on trends in crude oil prices, Henwood predicted last Thursday that it
"wouldn't be surprising to see his approval numbers rise into the mid-40s."
In a USA TODAY/Gallup Poll taken Friday through Sunday, Bush's rating
rose to 44%, his highest in a year.
Wait a second....according to fib-erals his approval numbers had to do
with his policies, not gas prices!
For most of us with reasonable intelligence there is a definite correlation
between Bush policies and MOVING AVERAGE gas prices. Only an
idiot would try to say that these two things do not correlate. And just so
you get the point I will say that overall rise in the price of gas has been
BECAUSE of Bush policies and that the latest "blip" is, in fact, due to the
fact that the oil companies are "investing" in the Republicans INDIRECTLY.
They WANT desperately for the Republicans to retain control of the
congress and they are doing what they believe might make that happen.
This is not a "conspiracy" theory. It is a simple observation of business
in our world today.
Sure. Total crap.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13599899/
While there is typically a fall in oil prices in Sept. after the summer, the
fall in prices this year is much more pronounced than in previous years.
Nice try.
Denial is not just a river in Africa. Look it up in the commodity charts
as I did.
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Countdown to liberal kook conspiracy outrage (again)...............
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WHEN CONSPIRACY IS A SUBSTITUTE FOR INTELLECTUAL
THOUGHT
As usual, when something of such magnitude as 9/11 occurs, the
Conspiracy kooks have to come out of the woodwork spinning tales of
Government complicity and high level top secret orders. Oh, if only life
were really the X-Files. No, real life is much more complex than that.
I agree.
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
9/11 was a military operation that many military minded folks in secret
marvel at. Not because of the death toll, oh no, it is much deeper than
that. This plan was hatched in 3 countries, in complete secrecy with no
leaks to the New York Times and last but not least, conducted with near
perfect "Time on Target".
Now YOU are being a "conspiracy nut" and giving these people far
more credit than they deserve.
It was sarcasm.
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
The plot for 9/11 was initially conceived in 1994 in Manila Philippines.
Hmmmm, let's see here, who was president in 1994??? Oh yeah, Klintoon.
Gee..... If only he would have had a crystal viewing ball that could
"home in" on the evil doers. As it turns out, Clinton was aware of
Bin Laden in 1993 and trying to find out as much as he could.
Lib-loons expect the current admin. to have a crystal ball. I'm just applying
the same standards to Klintoon.
Sorry. It won't wash. Bin Laden was not a "Johny Come Lately" for
Bush. A lot of very good intelligence had been collected and it was
given to the Bush administration. It was finally "found" by the intel
folks that Ben Laden was the responsible party for the USS Cole
and that informatio0n was also passed as it should have been.
Well that was mighty nice of Klintoon to "collect" and "give". How about
collect and do?
You are obviously out of touch with reality. There was no finding by the
CIA or other agencies that Bin Laden was behind the attack and without
that there was nothing creditable that could be done. When these spooks
finally gave the green light it was too late in Clinton's term to take
action. It was passed to the Bush regime and they did nothing.
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
"Here Mr. New President, we collected all this stuff so
you can deal with this shit. That way, we look cool in everyone's eyes".
Actually, it is not right to start a major confrontation as a lame duck. The
attack happened in October of 2000, and in November Pinocchio became
(P)resident elect. As I said: There was no link between Bin Laden and
the Cole until later. But don't let that stop your web spinning.
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
LOL.
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
A lenient government with weak aircraft protocol gave them a place in
which they could take flights out to "case" their target. It also gave them
a country to operate in relative safety seeing how the then Ramos
government had their hands full with the Abu Sayyaf and that a few Arabs
running around Manila wouldn't gather all that much attention. All of that
gave them a laboratory that JFK and NYC could never provide them.
The thing to remember with our enemy is they are patient, waiting for the
perfect time to strike for maximum terror and effect.
What a load of horse manure. These people are no more patient or
cunning than anyone else.
Really?
Terrorists adapt their methods of operation to the environment where they operate.
For example, those terrorists responsible for the attack on the U.S.S. Cole off
Yemen used a small boat typical to that area, filled it with explosives,
approached the Cole without drawing attention, and then detonated the explosives.
And you believe that this requires some sort of above average intellect?
Didn't say that. Just says "adapt".
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
This clearly demonstrates their willingness and capability to attack U.S. targets
worldwide. In preparing for the attacks on the World Trade Center and the
Pentagon, terrorists were able to establish legal residence in the United States
where they were afforded an unimpeded opportunity to conduct training, perform
reconnaissance (research airport procedures), and establish critical support.
True story.
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
In the end, they hijacked commercial aircrafts without detection or interdiction.
As an adaptive foe, terrorists learn from their own successes and failures.
So do lab rats.
and so do you.
Nothin like some additional hominy grits.
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
We
can also conclude that terrorist targeting and tactics will continue to evolve.
NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! Not Evolution!!!!
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
They have shown patience and a willingness to wait until the time and target
are optimum to conduct an attack. Just like the chameleon analogy, Army
intelligence must adapt its methods of identifying trends, capabilities, and
intentions of this asymmetric threat to achieve predictive rather than
historical effects.
(snore)
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
As a military tactician,
the 9/11 plot was pure offensive genius. Take one of your enemy's strengths
and turn it into a weakness. American airpower and commercial might
turned into fully fueled missiles took cruelness yet genius that tells me,
we are in a fight like none other in the history of man.
That is because you are looking to excuse the inaction or the
stupidity of your "moron in chief".
Like exusing Klintoon for doing nothing.
Lie.
Fact.
Lie.
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Why can't anything be what it is? Why can't people accept the fact that
radical Islamists with a hatred of the West made good on a promise to
make war with the United States?
There is a very big difference in a terrorist attack (or even a bunch of
terrorist attacks) and a _WAR_. These pukes do not have the necessary
resources to declare war on a pretzel. It takes a nincompoop like George
Bush to turn this criminal behavior into a _WAR_ for his own political
gain.
So we should just call the cops on them? Gimme a break. Are you
nuts?
No. You are.
So it's the word "war" that bothers you? You'd feel more warm fuzzies if
we called it the "Tiff with Terror"? That make you feel better?
Actually, yes. It is much more truthful.
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
After Al Qaeda attacked the World
Trade Center the first time,
Clinton put the perpetrators in the iron motel like the criminals they are and
he tried to get the entire "family" of criminals. But first you must get a
finding from the "intelligence" community and even then you need the
support of the various congressional committees before you can _act_
in any decisive way. It was not then and is not now in the best interest
of the United States to call this a _war_. All that has done is to give an
air of legitimacy and stature to a crime family no different than the
Cosa Nostra.
I hope you are not serious.
I am quite serious. I did not see the Brits declaring war on Ireland
and we certainly were not doing ourselves any favors in going to war
in Iraq.
Skirmish? Brawl? Upset? What the hell........
That's knit-picking shit.
Not when Newt Gingrich wants to portray this crap as WWIII.
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
then blew up a couple of embassies, the
Khobar Towers, The USS Cole and allegedly funded the Aidid government
in Somalia, why do we think it is anyone else?
Most of us do not think that it was anyone other than Moslem fundamentalists
that did these things whether Al Qaeda or Hezbollah or whatever. It was
sorta like Pat Roberson putting out a hit on Hugo Chavez.
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
And again, who was president then? Hmmmm, oh yeah, Klintoon again.
Billie Im-Too-Busy-Fucking-My-Staff Clinton.
You distortion artists never give up, do you? Whatever it takes to shift
the blame from yourselves to others is exactly what you will do. Right
next to the word "conspiracy" in any good dictionary should be a picture
of an elephant wearing a flag and a crucifix.
Fact.
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
As for World Trade Centers 1,2 and 7. Their destruction was fully explained
by the engineer and architects who designed them and have no reason to
support a conspiracy by the "evil, oil beholden" Bush Administration or
the "Zionist" Mossad or whatever the Conspiracy kook community is calling
them nowadays.
Most of us see a "conspiracy" of feigned or real "ignorance" on the
part of Cheney and Bush. The events that unfolded after the planes
hit their targets are, to most of us, not part of the discussion.
Of course you do.
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
WTC's 1 and 2 went down because too many supports were compromised
to bear the load for the damaged portions and WTC 7 went because in the
confusion of trying to rescue folks trapped in the collapsed towers, I don't
believe anyone realized WTC 7 was involved until it was too late.
(snore)
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Another thing to consider, the State Department and the White House both
leak like a sieve. Nothing happens in those offices without it getting to
someone at the Washington Post or the New York Times. If the "evil" Bush
Administration were even partially responsible for planning 9/11 to get us
into a war with Iraq, it is inconceivable that it would be a complete secret
and no one in the press would pick it up. Even if the press did pick it up,
do you think they would remain silent especially since it was so fresh after
Florida 2000? The press would run like the wind with the story that Bush
was going to kill 3,000 Americans to get us into a war to avenge the guy
who threatened to kill his Daddy. Come on, I know even you can't believe
that story. Even Scully and Mulder would be giggling their ass off on that
one.
I certainly am. But I am very comfortable with my position that the
Busies new more than they say they did and that they prayed every
night for ANYTHING that would allow then to increase their power
in this country.
Power for who? Term is up in 2008. What a silly comment from, I assume,
an adult.
Power for the Republican Party and the Executive branch of government.
And I, for one, hope his term is up next year.
Umm, his term is up.............by default. I realize that leftists have that need for
power. It's kinda like a pot-kettle syndrome here.
Not being a "leftist" I would not know if they have a lust for power. I do
know that this is definitely a part of the Republican personality.
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by The Trucker
<<< deletia of more silliness>>>
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
I know it is human nature to try and put answers to things but sometimes
the answers are there, you just don't want to face them. 9/11 was a tragedy,
a tragedy I am not sure that could have been entirely averted with the
political climate prior to 9/11. Let's face it, with the towers still
standing
how
many folks are going to agree with the airline security we now have to deal
with?
Many of us don't agree with all the hysteria and stomping of civil
liberties in any case. If we needed to seal off the cockpits of the
planes or to make it possible to take them over from the ground
then so be it. No need for all the bogyman stuff.
I know. It's all so silly isn't it? Do you fly? :-b
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
That's right, not too many. We need to remain vigilant, on guard and always
refuse capitulation in the face of terror.
We needed to thumb our noses at these criminals. The best statement I have
heard in the last 5 years came form an elderly person in the UK. When
asked what should be done in the wake of the London transit bombings
she said "You can't let them change who you are". When we give up our
liberty in the face of threats we are giving the terrorists a win.
Vigilance,
yes.
Invasion of individual rights, no. Torture, no. Suspension of Habeas Corpus,
no. Unwarranted wiretapping, no.
and YOU define "unwarranted", right?
That would be "Warrantless".
warrantless = unwarranted
Funny. I just posted a poll taken my MSNBC that states otherwise.
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
You lib-loons are simply in denial. "Good gosh! If dems. were in control,
this would have never happened? Really? Then re-read the above again.
Can't comprehend it? Of course you can't, you're a lib-loon.
It is you who are in denial: You don't defeat terrorism by making war.
That is nothing short of stupidity on steroids. You defeat terrorism by
removing the support of the people for the terrorists. It takes time
and it takes REAL intelligence. And I'm not talking about the gathering
of data. I am talking about having some notion of how to win the hearts
and minds of the real people. It is done with even handed fairness and
not with threats and bombs.
Ahhh....gosh of golly. Follow your yellow-brick road.
Much more intelligent than yours.
Of course you are more "imtelligent".
--
"I know no safe depository of the ultimate powers
of society but the people themselves; and
if we think them not enlightened enough to
exercise their control with a wholesome
discretion, the remedy is not to take it from
them, but to inform their discretion by
education." - Thomas Jefferson
http://GreaterVoice.org
B***@OnTheBoard.com
2006-10-03 02:19:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
A statistical analysis by Doug Henwood, editor of the liberal newsletter
Left Business Observer, found that an "uncanny" 78% of the movement
in Bush's ratings could be correlated with changes in gas prices. Based
on trends in crude oil prices, Henwood predicted last Thursday that it
"wouldn't be surprising to see his approval numbers rise into the mid-40s."
In a USA TODAY/Gallup Poll taken Friday through Sunday, Bush's rating
rose to 44%, his highest in a year.
Wait a second....according to fib-erals his approval numbers had to do
with his policies, not gas prices!
For most of us with reasonable intelligence there is a definite correlation
between Bush policies and MOVING AVERAGE gas prices. Only an
idiot would try to say that these two things do not correlate. And just so
you get the point I will say that overall rise in the price of gas has been
BECAUSE of Bush policies and that the latest "blip" is, in fact, due to the
fact that the oil companies are "investing" in the Republicans INDIRECTLY.
They WANT desperately for the Republicans to retain control of the
congress and they are doing what they believe might make that happen.
This is not a "conspiracy" theory. It is a simple observation of business
in our world today.
Sure. Total crap.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13599899/
While there is typically a fall in oil prices in Sept. after the summer, the
fall in prices this year is much more pronounced than in previous years.
Nice try.
Denial is not just a river in Africa. Look it up in the commodity charts
as I did.
Libs practically invented the word denial.
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Countdown to liberal kook conspiracy outrage (again)...............
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WHEN CONSPIRACY IS A SUBSTITUTE FOR INTELLECTUAL
THOUGHT
As usual, when something of such magnitude as 9/11 occurs, the
Conspiracy kooks have to come out of the woodwork spinning tales of
Government complicity and high level top secret orders. Oh, if only life
were really the X-Files. No, real life is much more complex than that.
I agree.
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
9/11 was a military operation that many military minded folks in secret
marvel at. Not because of the death toll, oh no, it is much deeper than
that. This plan was hatched in 3 countries, in complete secrecy with no
leaks to the New York Times and last but not least, conducted with near
perfect "Time on Target".
Now YOU are being a "conspiracy nut" and giving these people far
more credit than they deserve.
It was sarcasm.
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
The plot for 9/11 was initially conceived in 1994 in Manila Philippines.
Hmmmm, let's see here, who was president in 1994??? Oh yeah, Klintoon.
Gee..... If only he would have had a crystal viewing ball that could
"home in" on the evil doers. As it turns out, Clinton was aware of
Bin Laden in 1993 and trying to find out as much as he could.
Lib-loons expect the current admin. to have a crystal ball. I'm just applying
the same standards to Klintoon.
Sorry. It won't wash. Bin Laden was not a "Johny Come Lately" for
Bush. A lot of very good intelligence had been collected and it was
given to the Bush administration. It was finally "found" by the intel
folks that Ben Laden was the responsible party for the USS Cole
and that informatio0n was also passed as it should have been.
Well that was mighty nice of Klintoon to "collect" and "give". How about
collect and do?
You are obviously out of touch with reality. There was no finding by the
CIA or other agencies that Bin Laden was behind the attack and without
that there was nothing creditable that could be done. When these spooks
finally gave the green light it was too late in Clinton's term to take
action. It was passed to the Bush regime and they did nothing.
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
"Here Mr. New President, we collected all this stuff so
you can deal with this shit. That way, we look cool in everyone's eyes".
Actually, it is not right to start a major confrontation as a lame duck. The
attack happened in October of 2000, and in November Pinocchio became
(P)resident elect. As I said: There was no link between Bin Laden and
the Cole until later. But don't let that stop your web spinning.
Confrontations are not taken on by election times. They happen when they
happen. Don't be so silly.
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
LOL.
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
A lenient government with weak aircraft protocol gave them a place in
which they could take flights out to "case" their target. It also gave them
a country to operate in relative safety seeing how the then Ramos
government had their hands full with the Abu Sayyaf and that a few Arabs
running around Manila wouldn't gather all that much attention. All of that
gave them a laboratory that JFK and NYC could never provide them.
The thing to remember with our enemy is they are patient, waiting for the
perfect time to strike for maximum terror and effect.
What a load of horse manure. These people are no more patient or
cunning than anyone else.
Really?
Terrorists adapt their methods of operation to the environment where they
operate.
For example, those terrorists responsible for the attack on the U.S.S. Cole off
Yemen used a small boat typical to that area, filled it with explosives,
approached the Cole without drawing attention, and then detonated the explosives.
And you believe that this requires some sort of above average intellect?
Didn't say that. Just says "adapt".
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
This clearly demonstrates their willingness and capability to attack U.S. targets
worldwide. In preparing for the attacks on the World Trade Center and the
Pentagon, terrorists were able to establish legal residence in the United States
where they were afforded an unimpeded opportunity to conduct training, perform
reconnaissance (research airport procedures), and establish critical support.
True story.
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
In the end, they hijacked commercial aircrafts without detection or interdiction.
As an adaptive foe, terrorists learn from their own successes and failures.
So do lab rats.
and so do you.
Nothin like some additional hominy grits.
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
We
can also conclude that terrorist targeting and tactics will continue to evolve.
NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! Not Evolution!!!!
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
They have shown patience and a willingness to wait until the time and target
are optimum to conduct an attack. Just like the chameleon analogy, Army
intelligence must adapt its methods of identifying trends, capabilities, and
intentions of this asymmetric threat to achieve predictive rather than
historical effects.
(snore)
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
As a military tactician,
the 9/11 plot was pure offensive genius. Take one of your enemy's strengths
and turn it into a weakness. American airpower and commercial might
turned into fully fueled missiles took cruelness yet genius that tells me,
we are in a fight like none other in the history of man.
That is because you are looking to excuse the inaction or the
stupidity of your "moron in chief".
Like exusing Klintoon for doing nothing.
Lie.
Fact.
Lie.
Fact.
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Why can't anything be what it is? Why can't people accept the fact that
radical Islamists with a hatred of the West made good on a promise to
make war with the United States?
There is a very big difference in a terrorist attack (or even a bunch of
terrorist attacks) and a _WAR_. These pukes do not have the necessary
resources to declare war on a pretzel. It takes a nincompoop like George
Bush to turn this criminal behavior into a _WAR_ for his own political
gain.
So we should just call the cops on them? Gimme a break. Are you
nuts?
No. You are.
So it's the word "war" that bothers you? You'd feel more warm fuzzies if
we called it the "Tiff with Terror"? That make you feel better?
Actually, yes. It is much more truthful.
Figured you'd go there. lol.
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
After Al Qaeda attacked the World
Trade Center the first time,
Clinton put the perpetrators in the iron motel like the criminals they are and
he tried to get the entire "family" of criminals. But first you must get a
finding from the "intelligence" community and even then you need the
support of the various congressional committees before you can _act_
in any decisive way. It was not then and is not now in the best interest
of the United States to call this a _war_. All that has done is to give an
air of legitimacy and stature to a crime family no different than the
Cosa Nostra.
I hope you are not serious.
I am quite serious. I did not see the Brits declaring war on Ireland
and we certainly were not doing ourselves any favors in going to war
in Iraq.
Skirmish? Brawl? Upset? What the hell........
That's knit-picking shit.
Not when Newt Gingrich wants to portray this crap as WWIII.
Well....
There is a (please chose your word) "war", "tiff", "argument", "confrontation",
"spat", "conflagration", "disagreement", "spat", etc. with isalmo-kooks
worldwide. But, since you want to knitpick on titles, we'll rename it (:-))....

TIFFIII, ARGIII, CONFIII, SPATIII, etc.
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
then blew up a couple of embassies, the
Khobar Towers, The USS Cole and allegedly funded the Aidid government
in Somalia, why do we think it is anyone else?
Most of us do not think that it was anyone other than Moslem fundamentalists
that did these things whether Al Qaeda or Hezbollah or whatever. It was
sorta like Pat Roberson putting out a hit on Hugo Chavez.
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
And again, who was president then? Hmmmm, oh yeah, Klintoon again.
Billie Im-Too-Busy-Fucking-My-Staff Clinton.
You distortion artists never give up, do you? Whatever it takes to shift
the blame from yourselves to others is exactly what you will do. Right
next to the word "conspiracy" in any good dictionary should be a picture
of an elephant wearing a flag and a crucifix.
Fact.
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
As for World Trade Centers 1,2 and 7. Their destruction was fully explained
by the engineer and architects who designed them and have no reason to
support a conspiracy by the "evil, oil beholden" Bush Administration or
the "Zionist" Mossad or whatever the Conspiracy kook community is calling
them nowadays.
Most of us see a "conspiracy" of feigned or real "ignorance" on the
part of Cheney and Bush. The events that unfolded after the planes
hit their targets are, to most of us, not part of the discussion.
Of course you do.
Post by The Trucker
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
WTC's 1 and 2 went down because too many supports were compromised
to bear the load for the damaged portions and WTC 7 went because in the
confusion of trying to rescue folks trapped in the collapsed towers, I
don't
believe anyone realized WTC 7 was involved until it was too late.
(snore)
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Another thing to consider, the State Department and the White House both
leak like a sieve. Nothing happens in those offices without it getting to
someone at the Washington Post or the New York Times. If the "evil" Bush
Administration were even partially responsible for planning 9/11 to get us
into a war with Iraq, it is inconceivable that it would be a complete
secret
and no one in the press would pick it up. Even if the press did pick it up,
do you think they would remain silent especially since it was so fresh
after
Florida 2000? The press would run like the wind with the story that Bush
was going to kill 3,000 Americans to get us into a war to avenge the guy
who threatened to kill his Daddy. Come on, I know even you can't believe
that story. Even Scully and Mulder would be giggling their ass off on that
one.
I certainly am. But I am very comfortable with my position that the
Busies new more than they say they did and that they prayed every
night for ANYTHING that would allow then to increase their power
in this country.
Power for who? Term is up in 2008. What a silly comment from, I assume,
an adult.
Power for the Republican Party and the Executive branch of government.
And I, for one, hope his term is up next year.
Umm, his term is up.............by default. I realize that leftists have that need for
power. It's kinda like a pot-kettle syndrome here.
Not being a "leftist" I would not know if they have a lust for power. I do
know that this is definitely a part of the Republican personality.
Sure you are. Every sentence and post reeks of libby-ness.
f***@msn.com
2006-10-03 02:17:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by B***@OnTheBoard.com
Libs practically invented the word denial.
That's just not true and you know it.
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